D&D (2024) Multiclassing and ability score drain?

He is referring to Silvery Barbs and Disintegrate both taking a spell slot therefore you cannot cast them in the same turn. Magical Secrets does not help with that restriction
Oh derp, sorry. Somehow I thought the problem was simply having the spell as a Bard. Carry on!

EDIT: I'm still playing 2014 D&D, so the idea I can't use a reaction spell on my turn isn't something I'm used to yet.
 

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I am playing a multiclass Scout Rogue 3/Wizard 1. She had a 13 Intelligence, the minimum for a Wizard multiclass but lost 2 points of intelligence from a BBEG and her current stats are S6 D15 C10 I11 W14 CH6.

What are the rules for this going forward with an 11 Intelligence?

I was planning to take a Monk level next, but I think her Intelligence means she can no longer take any other classes because she does not have the minimum Intelligence to multiclass out of Wizard.

Since she is already a Rogue/Wizard I think she can continue to take levels in either of these classes.

Thoughts?
To the OPs question I would say permanent ability drain is extremely rare within the rules of the game as written. You normally get ability damage back after a long rest. For a primary stat it seems particularly debilitating.

Can you elaborate on the circumstances of how you lost it? If the DM is putting in place special circumstances to reduce your intelligence you might want to have an OOG conversation to see if the disapprove of the character choices.
 


For a little more comparison

TWF Paladin 12
3d6+15+3d8+4d8 = 57
Half a point behind the paladin 1/rogue11.

Ok, without Vex you are half a point behind when you have your sixth level slot and further behind at every other time, while also having less skill proficiencies, without evasion, without reliable talent, without Cunning Strike, without Cunning Action and Without Mage Hand Legerdemain.

It's really the green flame blade that's boosting rogue damage those stack, not smite. And the lack of Nick makes it only slightly lpowerful.

Actually it is the sneak attack. GFB is 9 damage, sneak attack is 21 damage.

Edit. To be complete
Assassin 12, with GFB
7d6+5+12+2d8 = 50.5

An assasin needs a feat for GFB so this is one more feat and no spells, no Mage Hand Legerdemain and only a few points behiund. The Arcane Trickster is already the most powerful Rogue, your Assasin, which is supposed to make up for it with better damage is ding worse damage.
 

Ok, without Vex you are half a point behind when you have your sixth level slot and further behind at every other time, while also having less skill proficiencies, without evasion, without reliable talent, without Cunning Strike, without Cunning Action and Without Mage Hand Legerdemain.
Straight paladin has lay on hands, aura, different smites, and channel divinity.
Also have more spell slots and a feat.

Also, your can't use Cunning Action when you smite.

Not saying it's better. But about the same. And thus Rogue/Paladin doesn't need the Con penalty.

Actually it is the sneak attack. GFB is 9 damage, sneak attack is 21 damage.
Paladin gets 22 damage from multi attack and Radiant strike (1d6+5 + 3d8).

An assasin needs a feat for GFB so this is one more feat and no spells, no Mage Hand Legerdemain and only a few points behiund. The Arcane Trickster is already the most powerful Rogue, your Assasin, which is supposed to make up for it with better damage is ding worse damage.
Depends on the number of battles you have in a day. A lot of little battles really favors the Assassin. Both from the bonus damage and the Initiative boost giving them more turns.

But I agree the Assassin is a bit behind. I kind of want to max Assassinate do max sneak attack damage. Which is +1.25 per level.
 
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Straight paladin has lay on hands, aura, different smites, and channel divinity.
Also have more spell slots and a feat.

No it doesn't. A Paladin 2/Bard 10 does not have Aura or Channel Divinity and that is the mix needed for a 6th level smite to do once a day what the 12th level Paladin/Rogue can do twice a day.

Add more Paladin levels to get that stuff and the Rogue multiclass is outrunning you even with your maximum smite being used.

The Rogue multiclass DOES have Lay on Hands and DOES have a 2nd Paladin spell.

You do have more spell slots but every time the Rogue makes a sneak attack it is the equivalent of your guy burning a 3rd level slot on a smite. This means if you want to match the Rogue in melee damage you have LESS slots to actually use on other spells. If you ignore multiclass minimums, you also generally have a worse chance of landing those and getting the enemy to fail the DC. If you use the multiclass minimums that is a huge nerf to the Rogue and he is not much of a spell caster because his DC is so low.

If you use the multiclass minimums then a lot of your points here regarding spell slots become legit in play. He can't use the slots effectively for much other than divine smite. As a matter of fact if you put the multiclass minimums in place, and want to optimize this build, this Arcane Trickster/Paladin goes from max Intelligence (with no minimums) to dumping Intelligence and maxing Charisma. He gets GFB and Truestrike through a feat on Charisma instead of for free as a Rogue on Intelligence and the only combat spells he can cast effectively are Divine Smite and the one other Paladin spell he can prepare. That is the whole point! What you are saying here regarding spells is true in play ONLY when you keep the multiclass minimums in place.

Also, your can't use Cunning Action when you smite.

I know, not when you smite, but he can do around 40 damage at will without smiting and your Paladin/Bard can't.

Depends on the number of battles you have in a day. A lot of little battles really favors the Assassin. Both from the bonus damage and the Initiative boost giving them more turns.

Not really. The damage you show above assumes the Assasin wins initiative.

With advantage and a +5 there will be a lot of times you don't win initiative at 12th level with the 2024 monsters. Something like an adult Black Dragon is coming in with a 22 Initiative. Advantage and +5 vs 22 loses that most of the time.

Now you can get alert .... which is a second Origin Feat to do slightly less damage than the guy who took no origin feats at all. But even with a +9 and advantage you are still going to lose initiative often at 12th level.
 
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Not really. The damage you show above assumes the Assasin wins initiative.
No. It's bonus damage on your first turn. Changed for 2024.
Advantage on initiative should also count for extra damage, as you get extra turns, but hard to say how much.

And I was calculating for a straight paladin.
Bard 12 would probably have Conjure Minor Elementals.

The Rogue multiclass DOES have Lay on Hands and DOES have a 2nd Paladin spell.
So it's rogue 6/paladin 5 now?
 

Silvery Barbs should definitely be added to the GM watchlist and have its picture posted around every bar in town with “warning do not approach” written in red ink.

That spell alone is a good reason to upgrade to 2024.

IT is a lot weaker in 2024 with the new spell slot rule and I don't think it was really that OP in 2014, just annoying.

The main thing against it is it makes combat drag - ...... wait undo that and reroll ..... the 2024 rules already have a crap ton of that kind of stuff though, so Silvery Barbs is really a non-issue.
 
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Bard 12 would probably have Conjure Minor Elementals.

Bard 12 would not have divine smite and on a melee character CME does not come close in play to divine smite in terms of damage due to the action economy and concentration.

So it's rogue 6/paladin 5 now?

No it is a Rogue 11/Paladin 1. He gets to prepare two Paladin spells as a first level Paladin one is Divine Smite and he has a 2nd spell to go along with that. Probably not another smite if he is allowed to dump Charisma, but another spell just the same.
 
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