Lanefan
Victoria Rules
The problem is, every one of those options paints the DM as the bad guy.
Far better to make all those things be the default rules right from day one and provide options for the DM to make things easier if so desired.
D&D General What Is D&D Generally Bad At That You Wish It Was Better At?
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
Far better to make all those things be the default rules right from day one and provide options for the DM to make things easier if so desired.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
From 2e to 3e, the game shifted from skilled player to system-master player.
Voadam
Legend
Most of the 3e to 5e negating magic is based on stuff that was there in 1e.
Create Water (Alteration) Reversible
Level: 1 Components: V, S, M
Range: 1” Casting Time: 1 round
Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: Up to 27 cubic feet
Explanation/Description: When the cleric casts a create water spell, four gallons
of water are generated for every level of experience of the caster, i.e. a 2nd level
cleric creates eight gallons of water, a 3rd level twelve gallons, a 4th level sixteen
gallons, etc. The water is clean and drinkable (it is just like rain water). Reversing
the spell, destroy water, obliterates without trace (such as vapor, mist, fog or
steam) a like quantity of water. Created water will last until normally used or
evaporated, spilled, etc. Water can be created or destroyed in an area as small
as will actually contain the liquid or in an area as large as 27 cubic feet (one
cubic yard). The spell requires at least a drop of water to create, or a pinch of
dust to destroy, water. Note that water cannot be created within a living thing.
Continual Light (Alteration)
Level: 2 Components: V, S
Range: 6” Casting Time: 2 segments
Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: 6” radius globe
Explanation/Description: This spell is the same as the third level cleric spell
continual light (q.v.), except that the range is only 6”, not 12”, and it cannot be
reversed by the caster.
Create Food & Water (Alteration)
Level: 3 Components: V, S
Range: 1” Casting Time: 1 turn
Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: 1 cubic foot/level
Explanation/Description: When this spell is cast, the cleric causes food and/or
water to appear. The food thus created is highly nourishing, and each cubic
foot of the material will sustain three human-sized creatures or one horse-sized
creature for a full day. For each level of experience the cleric has attained, 1
cubic foot of food and/or water is created by the spell, i.e. 2 cubic feet of food
are created by a 2nd level cleric, 3 by a 3rd, 4 by a 4th, and so on; or the 2nd
level cleric could create 1 cubic foot of food and 1 cubic foot of water, etc.
Leomund’s Tiny Hut (Alteration)
Level: 3 Components: V, S, M
Range: 0 Casting Time: 3 segments
Duration: 6 turns/level Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: 10’ diameter sphere
Explanation/Description: When this spell is cast, the magic-user causes an
opaque sphere of force to come into being around his or her person, half of
the sphere projecting above the ground or floor surface, the lower
hemisphere passing through the surface. This field causes the interior of the
sphere to maintain at 70° F. temperature in cold to 0° F., and heat up to
105° F. Cold below 0° lowers inside temperature on a 1° for 1° basis, heat
above 105° raises the inside temperature likewise. The tiny hut will withstand
winds up to 50 m.p.h. without being harmed, but wind force greater than
that will destroy it. The interior of the tiny hut is a hemisphere, and the spell
caster can illuminate it dimly upon command, or extinguish the light as
desired. Note that although the force field is opaque from positions outside,
it is transparent from within. In no way will Leomund’s tiny hut provide
protection from missiles, weapons, spells, and the like. Up to 6 other man-sized
creatures can fit into the field with its creator, and these others can
freely pass in and out of the tiny hut without harming it, but if the spell caster
removes himself from it, the spell will dissipate. The material component for
this spell is a small crystal bead which will shatter when spell duration
expires or the hut is otherwise dispelled.
Endure Cold I Endure Heat (Alteration) Reversible
Level: 7 Components: V, S
Range: Touch
Duration: 9 turns/level
Area of Effect: One creature
Casting Time: 1 round
Saving Throw: None
ExplanationlDescription: The recipient of this spell is provided with
protection from normal extremes of cold or heat (depending on which
application is used). He or she can stand unclothed in temperatures
as low as -3O° F. or as high as 130° F. (depending on application) with
no ill effect. A temperature extreme beyond either of those limits will
cause 1 hit point of exposure damage per hour for every degree
above or below those limits. (Without the benefit of protection such as
this, exposure damage is 1 hit point per turn for each degree of temperature.)
The spell will last for the prescribed duration, or until the recipient
is affected by any form of magical cold (including white dragon
breath) or magical heat. The cancellation of the spell will occur regardless
of which application was used and regardless of which type
of magical effect hits the character (e.g., endure cold will be cancelled
by magical heat or fire as well as by magical cold). The recipient of the
spell will not suffer damage from the magical heat or cold during the
round in which the spell is broken, but will be vulnerable to all such attacks
starting on the following round. The spell will be cancelled instantly
if either resist fire or resist cold is cast upon the recipient.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Yes, and if you didn't have someone in your party with access to these spells (or who was willing and-or had the spare slots to memorize them each day) you were hosed.
Continual Light is the exception: darkness as an environmental hazard becomes much less relevant as soon as you have a non-Human in the party. As it's permanent, you could cast a bunch of these during downtime and, absent bad luck with someone's Dispel Magic, you had all the light you needed.
Also, you'd probably need to cast Endure Cold / Heat on every member of the party, perhaps multiple times a day each depending on your caster level. I recently ran a high-ish (7th-8th) level group in an arctic adventure where this became a problem - their Cleric was burning all his 1st-level slots on Endure Cold and still didn't have enough to cover the whole party (there were 9 of them), meaning they still had to take precautions such that those who didn't get Endure Cold didn't freeze.
Voadam
Legend
Are you arguing that is different in 3e-5e?
Wizards can pick their spells in 3e and it gives wizards bonus spells, but mostly it seems the same.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
In 5e some of those things are cantrips. No slots required, so very much easier to access.
3e had everburning torches you could buy for dirt cheap (thus no need for Continual Light ever), and the rest of those things are Cleric spells. I could be wrong but I don't think Clerics had to pre-memorize in 3e, or at least not as strictly as RAW 1e-2e had it.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
And yet for some reason you still didn't see Ever-burning Torches everywhere.
AnotherGuy
Hero
Yes (if it can be helped) but in practise it doesn't work out so cleanly to have all your homebrew rules sorted out from low/mid/high level. I think it depends on your table. I have a long standing group of friends with no trust issues thankfully. And I do not take it for granted!
We are currently playing high level (15th).
I recently made the unilateral decision that each multiclass costs one a feat (and I allowed it to be the next future feat) as I believe the multiclass is too cheap on the cost and those that do not multiclass don't get much benefit out of it. My table accepted the new homebrew rule.
I think communication is key and ofc being a fan of the PCs their backstories, ideals, bonds, flaws and goals and finding ways to keep those items in the foreground. We are all playing a game and finding our feet with the mechanics to see what works and what doesn't - not just for combat, but for internal consistency and for the setting.
Voadam
Legend
Light is an at will cantrip in 5e, that’s it that I can think of. Create water is a 1st level spell in 5e. Create water is a cantrip in 3e but they were not at will in 3e.
Everburning torches cost 100 gp, literally the component cost of the third level continual light in 3e. A 1e MU can cast it as a second level spell for no component cost if he has the spell. If not a 1e cleric can cast it as a third level spell at fifth level.
3e clerics could turn prepared spells into equal level cure spells spontaneously so that helped a little.
GrimCo
Hero
0 level spells in 3e were 3 per day. But those were best used for utility stuff. Also, if i'm not mistaken, in 2ed, you didn't get bonus slots for high casting stat nor did cleric get extra domain slot. In 3, you did. With 16 in your primary stat, you had 3 bonus slots at level 5 ( 1 for each spell level). Thats 3 0-level spells and 3 leveled spells per day more (+3 domain slots for clerics). Also, as mentioned before, paladin/ranger get their spells at level 4 ( bonus only, but they do) while their 2ed versions get them at lv 9/8. That is also major increase in magic ability.
5e also has rituals on some of those utility spells, so you don't even need to prepare them, you just need to know them to cast them. That is also major power up.
And let's not forget that different experience progressions in older editions.
One more thing. Multiclassing. 3e made it a real thing. It also made figher a dip class. You take 2-4 levels of fighter (2 for feats and proficiencies, 4 if you wanted weapon specialization) and then you drop it like hot potato and take something else. If you aren't taking class with full spell progression, you may as well dip into multiple classes, since most are pretty front loaded.
5e also has rituals on some of those utility spells, so you don't even need to prepare them, you just need to know them to cast them. That is also major power up.
And let's not forget that different experience progressions in older editions.
One more thing. Multiclassing. 3e made it a real thing. It also made figher a dip class. You take 2-4 levels of fighter (2 for feats and proficiencies, 4 if you wanted weapon specialization) and then you drop it like hot potato and take something else. If you aren't taking class with full spell progression, you may as well dip into multiple classes, since most are pretty front loaded.
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