D&D 5E What could 5E do to make wealth worthwhile?

We've had this thread before about whether PCs should care about a hot bath, a warm meal, and a decent privy after weeks in the wild, and the result is mostly saying you're a bad GM for imposing penalties for living like a hobo.

One of the things I really dislike about RPGs, regardless of genre, is that players want to get all "immersed" until it get uncomfortable. Like, cyberpunk campaigns always have a "coffin hotel" option and 99% of players ignore the absolute crushing effect of what living like that would do.

I get it. You're an Action Hero. That's cool. So act like an action hero and spring for the freaking penthouse.

Infuriating.
 

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I get it. You're an Action Hero. That's cool. So act like an action hero and spring for the freaking penthouse.
Or they can live it like rock stars and have someone else foot the bill.

From one of my games. Pc-s were around level 12-13. We squashed rebellion led by one of the nobles (by killing said noble and his entire bloodline), killed elemental prince that almost destroyed city harbor, squashed hobgoblin invasion attempt ( found out where their civilians live and fireballing them to oblivion until hobo army retreated).

Convo with the king was something like : See, we like you. We are patriots and we like this kingdom to prosper. No one here want's your crown and responsibilities and we will gladly keep this kingdom safe. But, man has to eat. And we rather fancy your summer palace. So we were thinking about taking it as a residence. Oh, don't worry, it's still yours, after all, someone needs to pay for it. We'll just enjoy it as special tenants free of charge as your token of gratitude for all the good we did. It's only fair, don't you agree?

It was very polite in Tony Soprano polite way.
 

I'm not intimately familiar with Shadowdark's carousing mechanics.
There's a table that lets PCs gamble their collected earnings (which they already got XP on when they collected the treasure) on throwing a big party when they get back to town, with more money invested giving them bigger bonuses. They can get additional XP, treasure, magic items, plus quests, connections with new NPCs, etc. My players love finishing the session by figuring out how much money they want to throw in the pot (the answer is almost always "all of it") and finding out what happened on their way back to being broke.

Doing something comparable in 5E would unfortunately require an overhaul of the XP system, as it would be too good to put atop the current XP system. But if you cut the XP for overcoming obstacles in 5E by half, it could work.
But it's just as easy to introduce longer-term gold sinks that operate under similar principles.
Experience says that a lot of DMs and groups struggle with this. Putting in a mechanical benefit will get more players to participate than are interested just for story reasons. The story-driven people were probably never the problem in this scenario.
 

Maybe wealth and things to spend money on needs to be determined at the start of the campaign. If players aren't interested in anything but small adventures or single on-going adventure path with little downtime then it might be a little harder. If the party is asked for long-term goals then perhaps that might change since they have something to put the money towards, kind of like wanting to buy a house or car in the real world. If the fighter wants to become a merchant-prince then he can start putting money towards his own trading house, a wizard might want to build their own mage tower at a nexus of mystical energy, and a priest might want to found their own temple of monastery. These would provide money sinks and potentially impact the campaign world, great if the campaign world is constantly re-used with different adventuring groups.
 

Or they can live it like rock stars and have someone else foot the bill.

From one of my games. Pc-s were around level 12-13. We squashed rebellion led by one of the nobles (by killing said noble and his entire bloodline), killed elemental prince that almost destroyed city harbor, squashed hobgoblin invasion attempt ( found out where their civilians live and fireballing them to oblivion until hobo army retreated).

Convo with the king was something like : See, we like you. We are patriots and we like this kingdom to prosper. No one here want's your crown and responsibilities and we will gladly keep this kingdom safe. But, man has to eat. And we rather fancy your summer palace. So we were thinking about taking it as a residence. Oh, don't worry, it's still yours, after all, someone needs to pay for it. We'll just enjoy it as special tenants free of charge as your token of gratitude for all the good we did. It's only fair, don't you agree?

It was very polite in Tony Soprano polite way.
seems like a counter-intuitive solution of making money matter to PCs: make someone else deal with paying for things?
 

Note: This includes 5E 2024.

It is pretty well agreed upon that monetary treasure and wealth does not have much use in 5E (especially compared to 3.x era games). So what could 5E do to make money matter? What would you like to see? What things could help motivate the going into the holes and killing the monsters and taking their stuff?
Either significantly reduce the treasure available in each encounter, or adjust prices to maintain parity with PC wealth.

Whether the "common" folk could afford those prices doesn't really matter, as D&D isn't an economic sim, and the focus is on the PCs.
 

I don't personally find it that difficult or complicated to incentivise stuff like that. Downtime... or just time passing really..
allows the DM to introduce events that make stuff like having castles worthwhile. Keeps can serve to protect the town if goblins come raiding while the PCs are off between adventures. (Good-aligned and a decent percentage of neutral PCs will tend to care about this). Or possessing property might guarantee status and respect amongst the nobility if the party ever needs to deal with them. And likely keeps out the elements if nothing else.

The most obvious response I can think of, if the players try to ignore housing, is to impose minor penalties or just narrate unpleasantness if the PCs choose to go that route. It IS part of the GM's job to dramatize the world, after all. Living without a permanent shelter can be harsh. Maybe let the vagabond PC make a quick survival check before the next adventure session to represent their ability to rough it in the wild without unpleasantness (some character types are likely skilled and/or used to such things afterall). Failure may result in stuff like...

* The PC being filthy and/or smelling bad (disadvantage on charisma checks with civilized humanoids and a suffering a host of microaggressions from them)

* The PC starts the next adventure with a temporary max HP reduction and possibly a level of exhaustion from cold or hot weather exposure in the absence of good shelter.

* The PC suffers from a host of mild but longer term ailments like malnutrition, fleas / lice / or other parasites, frostbite, scratches, bruises, or other minor not-fully-healed injuries, torn and weathered equipment. The DM imposes disadvantage on up to three d20 rolls the PC makes over the next couple sessions that would not otherwise have it.


Yeah, I would tend to advise against forcing or even encouraging players too strongly to engage with social or base management types of mini-game. I know many people who are just not into that sort of thing. I get around this by offering some default or "simple" options when I give the players downtime between sessions - they can work a day job for a little bit of money, research various plot subjects, or just party... gaining heroic inspiration at the start of the next adventuring session. I try to keep things uncomplicated and fast-moving.

Always made more sense to have magic item "brokers" than magic shops to me personally. Given the level of expense relative to commoners' wages in one's presumed fantasy-medieval world. With magic items being registered and sometimes requiring a license from the King or other government official.
Agreed. So many of these concerns would IMO be alleviated simply by putting more attention on downtime and setting, and letting the campaign breathe.
 

Not in 5e. Let's see what we have.

Prestidigitation - dry cleaner, food chiller/warmer/flavorer ; cantrip
Unseen servant - magical house maid/ cook/ server; 1st level ritual (no slots needed)
Tiny hut - creates dry, comfortable, mostly spell proof, burglar/assasisn proof shelter; 3rd leve ritual (no slots needed)

Any level 5 wizard or bard will take those and use them as rituals. High level wizards can go all extravagant and use Magnificent mansion when they want to impress or just enjoy luxury.

If you have cleric or paladin of 5th level, they can use one 3rd level slot and you enjoy 20kg of food per day. Sure it's bland, but then you use prestidigitation to flavour it and voila. Or you can just Goodberry it on the cheap side for one 1st level slot.

Magic in 5e let's you live pretty good for almost nothing if you have bard or a wizard in the party. Add cleric/paladin/ranger/druid and you don't have to spend penny on trivialities like food, drink, lodging, basic services etc.
This is an area ripe for rules adjustment. Level Up for example has done a ton to fix this with its journey rules, and even they can be expanded upon.
 

Or they can live it like rock stars and have someone else foot the bill.

From one of my games. Pc-s were around level 12-13. We squashed rebellion led by one of the nobles (by killing said noble and his entire bloodline), killed elemental prince that almost destroyed city harbor, squashed hobgoblin invasion attempt ( found out where their civilians live and fireballing them to oblivion until hobo army retreated).

Convo with the king was something like : See, we like you. We are patriots and we like this kingdom to prosper. No one here want's your crown and responsibilities and we will gladly keep this kingdom safe. But, man has to eat. And we rather fancy your summer palace. So we were thinking about taking it as a residence. Oh, don't worry, it's still yours, after all, someone needs to pay for it. We'll just enjoy it as special tenants free of charge as your token of gratitude for all the good we did. It's only fair, don't you agree?

It was very polite in Tony Soprano polite way.
Sounds like they had the king over a barrel. Good stuff if you have the right players.
 

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