How would YOU change Shadowdark?

overgeeked · 2025-03-13T18:46:03+0000

Velderan said:
Gotcha. I don’t particularly see adjusting treasure to keep advancement largely in line with the original module as being that big of an issue if I really had my heart set on reliving a TSR module but then again I probably would just use OSE if that was my goal.

TiQuinn said:
A lot of those older modules had a much larger amount of treasure and magic items than what Shadowdark assumes.

Sorry. Maybe I'm just missing something obvious to people with more experience with the game, but why wouldn't you just use the Shadowdark treasure rules? Like when I'm running an old module I use it as a rough blueprint but use the current system we're playing for the monster stats, treasure, etc. Do others not do that as a default?

wicked cool · 2025-03-13T18:46:10+0000

I would update certain rules
Sneak attack for rogue. Official discord and I get different answers everytime

Poison-I have to use monsters

The dm screen-not really helpful unless you need npc help

I use my pdf copy more than my printed version for rule help as the search button is way easier than randomly searching

Whizbang Dustyboots · 2025-03-13T18:47:57+0000

overgeeked said:
Sorry. Maybe I'm just missing something obvious to people with more experience with the game, but why wouldn't you just use the Shadowdark treasure rules? Like when I'm running an old module I use it as a rough blueprint but use the current system we're playing for the monster stats, treasure, etc. Do others not do that as a default?

The problem is that the coins in TSR adventures (not so much in most modern OSR adventures) need to be chopped back by at least 90% and as all the magic items are worth a ton of XP, so the DM has to either go through them ahead of time and cross stuff out or be comfortable with yanking most treasure out as the party comes across it.

So a problem for some DMs, but not for others.

Reynard · 2025-03-13T18:48:29+0000

wicked cool said:
I would update certain rules
Sneak attack for rogue. Official discord and I get different answers everytime

The thief has a backstab attack that is pretty explicit about how it works. What would you update?

Reynard · 2025-03-13T18:49:03+0000

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
The problem is that the coins in TSR adventures (not so much in most modern OSR adventures) need to be chopped back by at least 90% and all the magic items are worth a ton of XP, so the DM has to either go through them ahead of time and cross stuff out or be comfortable with yanking most treasure out as the party comes across it.

So a problem for some DMs, but not for others.

My memory is fuzzy, but aren't magic item only worth XP if you sell them?

Whizbang Dustyboots · 2025-03-13T18:58:00+0000

Reynard said:
My memory is fuzzy, but aren't magic item only worth XP if you sell them?

There's nothing in the book that I can find that says so, and lots that suggests the opposite.

From page 39:

XP awards are based on the quality of the treasure and boons you gain during a session.

GMs should see Awarding XP on pg. 117 for guidance.

The GM can award XP right away or at the end of each session.

From page 117:

Characters gain XP from the valuable treasures and boons they earn during an adventure.

XP awards don't need to reflect monetary value; boons or fabled items have intangible worth.

Treasure has four categories:
• Poor (0 XP): Mundane, low value, ordinary, unexciting.
• Normal (1 XP): Good value, worth protecting, useful.
• Fabulous (3 XP): Incredible, prized, well-guarded.
• Legendary (10 XP): Mythic, unique, quest-worthy.

Each PC gets the full XP value of each treasure. When PCs gain a new level, their XP resets to zero.

SOURCES OF XP
• Gold and gems
• Oaths, secrets, and blessings
• Magic items
• Meaningful trophies/tokens
• Clever thinking (award 1 XP for ingenious actions)

HOW MUCH GOLD?
Over time, PCs will earn and lose gold through adventuring, carousing, and buying gear.

Per treasure find, each group should gain about 10 gp x their average party level in value, or:

• 20 gp in value, levels 0-3
• 50 gp in value, levels 4-6
• 80 gp in value, levels 7-9

Compared to any TSR adventure, these are paltry sums. So people whose focus is on those adventures find this to be a point of friction.

Reynard · 2025-03-13T19:01:27+0000

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
There's nothing in the book that I can find that says so, and lots that suggests the opposite.

From page 39:

From page 117:

Compared to any TSR adventure, these are paltry sums. So people whose focus is on those adventures find this to be a point of friction.

Sorry, I meant for TSR adventures re: magic item XP.

Reynard · 2025-03-13T19:02:08+0000

I do think that the treasure and xp guidelines could be cleaned up. It is the only part of the rules that I did not find concise, complete, and intuitive.

overgeeked · 2025-03-13T19:02:12+0000

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
The problem is that the coins in TSR adventures (not so much in most modern OSR adventures) need to be chopped back by at least 90% and as all the magic items are worth a ton of XP, so the DM has to either go through them ahead of time and cross stuff out or be comfortable with yanking most treasure out as the party comes across it.

So a problem for some DMs, but not for others.

Right. Maybe I'm not explaining it well.

The old module says there's some monsters and treasure in the room.

The referee has two choices:

1) Use what's written and try to make it work in a different system, i.e. mod things to work "good enough" in the new system, or; 2) Use the new system.

So why not just use ignore what the module says about the quantity of loot and instead go with what Shadowdark says? What level are the PCs or the module and roll on the appropriate Shadowdark treasure table instead of using what's in the module. Seems like that would be dramatically less work than trying to convert the loot from TSR-era D&D to Shadowdark. Same with monsters. The module says orcs, okay...so use the Shadowdark orc stats.

Whizbang Dustyboots · 2025-03-13T19:06:58+0000

overgeeked said:
So why not just use ignore what the module says about the quantity of loot and instead go with what Shadowdark says? What level are the PCs or the module and roll on the appropriate Shadowdark treasure table instead of using what's in the module. Seems like that would be dramatically less work than trying to convert the loot from TSR-era D&D to Shadowdark. Same with monsters. The module says orcs, okay...so use the Shadowdark orc stats.

We're agreeing. I'm in the camp that would just automatically subtract most of the (truly silly) amounts of coinage from TSR adventures and all the +1 swords that drop like candy from medium level TSR adventures.

But there are DMs who want to run TSR adventures RAW and have a hard time, emotionally, changing anything to fit Shadowdark. I'm not arguing on their behalf -- I don't get it, myself. Those folks should be using OSRIC or OSE, in my opinion.

How would YOU change Shadowdark?

overgeeked

Dragonbane

wicked cool

Hero

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero

Reynard

aka Ian Eller

Reynard

aka Ian Eller

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero

Reynard

aka Ian Eller

Reynard

aka Ian Eller

overgeeked

Dragonbane

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero

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