D&D 1E Multi class issue for original D&D to 2nd ed question.

James Gasik said:

Ah ok. I no longer have my '89 DMG, I didn't think that the page numbers might be different. But yeah, as you said, I don't know what "optional rules" he's talking about.

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santosud37 said:

As there was no level limitation placed on Elven Thieves from the 0D&D Box Sets to the 1st Ed, my question is, how does one continue with this character?

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santosud37 said:

Or should I go on with the Levels and XP, per the 0D&D Rules Cyclopedia, pgs 24-26, for an Elf where there is NO Level Limit for races?

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Willie the Duck said:

I think you might confuse people with your distinct nomenclature. By convention, OD&D is used to refer to the original 1974 game, plus the supplements and products produced for them. As such, the only boxed set is the original 'Little Brown Books' (LBBs), which does not have thieves (that class added in supplement I).

The Rules Cyclopedia is generally included in the 'BECMI' or 'Mentzer' version of Dungeons and Dragons, although there are occasional differences (mostly consolidation) between it and the 5 boxed sets (plus rules issued in later supplements). It's generally treated as a different rules set than OD&D (albeit both in the basic/classic/non-advanced line).

This is all a just social convention of gaming boards. There isn't an actual OD&D, any more than there is a 'Star Trek:TOS' (how people often distinguish the original television series from the overall Star Trek franchise). However, it helps avoid confusion, so I would suggest it.

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Willie the Duck said:

I think you might confuse people with your distinct nomenclature. By convention, OD&D is used to refer to the original 1974 game, plus the supplements and products produced for them. As such, the only boxed set is the original 'Little Brown Books' (LBBs), which does not have thieves (that class added in supplement I).

The Rules Cyclopedia is generally included in the 'BECMI' or 'Mentzer' version of Dungeons and Dragons, although there are occasional differences (mostly consolidation) between it and the 5 boxed sets (plus rules issued in later supplements). It's generally treated as a different rules set than OD&D (albeit both in the basic/classic/non-advanced line).

This is all a just social convention of gaming boards. There isn't an actual OD&D, any more than there is a 'Star Trek:TOS' (how people often distinguish the original television series from the overall Star Trek franchise). However, it helps avoid confusion, so I would suggest it.

Click to expand...

Willie the Duck said:

I think you might confuse people with your distinct nomenclature. By convention, OD&D is used to refer to the original 1974 game, plus the supplements and products produced for them. As such, the only boxed set is the original 'Little Brown Books' (LBBs), which does not have thieves (that class added in supplement I).

The Rules Cyclopedia is generally included in the 'BECMI' or 'Mentzer' version of Dungeons and Dragons, although there are occasional differences (mostly consolidation) between it and the 5 boxed sets (plus rules issued in later supplements). It's generally treated as a different rules set than OD&D (albeit both in the basic/classic/non-advanced line).

This is all a just social convention of gaming boards. There isn't an actual OD&D, any more than there is a 'Star Trek:TOS' (how people often distinguish the original television series from the overall Star Trek franchise). However, it helps avoid confusion, so I would suggest it.

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santosud37 said:

It was weird for me in the 80s when I got the PHB 1ed where they have the added alignments because the D&D rules only had 3 (Good, Neutral, and Evil) A lot of things changed when that PHB, DMG, and Unearthed Arcana came out. Then 2nd ed got even worse in my opinion so I try to stick to the 1ed rules, which is more closely related to the original rules. I have read a lot of the Forgotten Realms novels in the 80s and have Greyhawk and Gazeteers that are from that time period.

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santosud37 said:

From 1977, tHe Boxed sets; Basic, Expert, Advanced D&D, is not part of 0D&D?

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• There isn't technically anything called 0D&D, (or oD&D/OD&D). Those are fan-made terms. However, the generally agreed to convention is that they cover the original Dungeons and Dragons ruleset released in 1974 (including subsequent print runs through 1978), and the supplements and peripherals produced for it. This version came out in a boxed set of three books (Men & Magic, Monsters & Treasure, Underworld & Wilderness Adventures). Notable to the conversation, thieves were not included in the main rulebook, and were released in Supplement I: Greyhawk. It's also notable in that some of the material in it (especially the supplements) would end up in the Advanced line, with subsequent versions of the basic/classic/non-advanced line going in a different direction. Germane to future points in this post, it was not set in the Known World (later Mystara), but in an indistinct implied setting with references to Greyhawk and Blackmoor settings (the former of which is one of those things which ended up in the Advanced line, the later of which became part of the Known World's ancient past).

1. The 1977 version is alternatively called 'Basic,' 'B,' or 'Holmes' D&D (after the editor, re-writer, and driving force behind it, Dr. J Eric Holmes). This consisted of a single boxed set labelled the basic set, plus some adventures printed in that timeframe. Initial printings referenced it as an intro version (after level 3 switch to...) for the forthcoming Advanced line (until lawsuits which honestly need their own discussion thread), but later printings suggested switching to 0D&D -- meaning that it was an odd special case in the advanced/non-advanced dividing line.
2. The 1981 version is usually called 'BX,' 'B/X,' or 'Moldvay-Cook' (after Tom Moldvay, David 'Zeb' Cook, and Stephen Marsh). This was two boxed sets (another Basic set, and an Expert one), plus some adventures; and with mention in the text of plans for a Companion set (which never materialized).
3. The 1983-5 version usually called 'BECMI' or 'Mentzer' (for Frank Mentzer) comprising five boxed sets (basic, expert, companion, master, immortal), many modules, rules expansions (like the Gazetteers and Creature Catalog series), and eventually the Rules Cyclopedia and two new 'intro' boxed sets (covering levels 1-5).

santosud37 said:

The Rules Cyclopedia was around that timeframe as well. Within the Box sets the only world that was around at that time was a world called The Known World. Mystara later on became that world.

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santosud37 said:

I had a friend in college who said he owned the original pages for the game. I am not sure how he aquired them or any info on that so maybe I am confused. I am not sure exactly what u guys mean by 0D&D then. To me the Box sets and anything D&D would b 0D&D, because AD&D didn't really exist yet until after that. The Advanced Rules Box set was the closest thing we had to AD&D, which I believe came out in either 1977 or 1978. We never bought that set.My friend in college in 1988-89 said he had the original white pages for the game. How he aquired them I do not know. I think he said he got them in 1973 and I think he said they are 4 pages long.

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Willie the Duck said:

I think you might confuse people with your distinct nomenclature. By convention, OD&D is used to refer to the original 1974 game, plus the supplements and products produced for them. As such, the only boxed set is the original 'Little Brown Books' (LBBs), which does not have thieves (that class added in supplement I).

The Rules Cyclopedia is generally included in the 'BECMI' or 'Mentzer' version of Dungeons and Dragons, although there are occasional differences (mostly consolidation) between it and the 5 boxed sets (plus rules issued in later supplements). It's generally treated as a different rules set than OD&D (albeit both in the basic/classic/non-advanced line).

This is all a just social convention of gaming boards. There isn't an actual OD&D, any more than there is a 'Star Trek:TOS' (how people often distinguish the original television series from the overall Star Trek franchise). However, it helps avoid confusion, so I would suggest it.

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Voadam said:

There is Original D&D, a three book boxed set from 1974 with supplemements I-IV (Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry, and Gods, Demigods, and Heroes). That is generally referred to as OD&D. O for origninal or 0 for 0e as preceding 1e.

In 1977 there was the Holmes Basic Set with a blue box and red dragon cover art. It was a precursor to 1e covering slightly different rules from Oe. Five point alignment for example was new.

1e 1977-79 came out with the 1e MM, PH, and DMG and used a bunch of OD&D rules with the rules from the supplements and Holmes Basic and its own stuff. 1e established nine point alignment for example.

1981 you had the Tom Moldvay B/X basic set (B/X stands for the Moldvay Basic and Dave Cook Expert sets from 1981) which was a distinct rules system with different stat modifiers, race as class, and going back to OD&D 3 point alignment.

1983 Had the Frank Mentzer BECMI basic set rules (Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortals sets) which were basically B/X with tiny differences and higher level add ons.

Later there was the Rules Cyclopedia basically compiling BECMI except for the immortals set into one book.

Then the Black box basic rules which covered BECMI levels 1-5.

So 1981 B/X basic on is basically one compatible line of interchangeable basic rules repackaging and what most refer to as Basic D&D.

OD&D is an earlier D&D system with distinct rules about as different from later basic as 1e is. Some call the Basic D&D line OD&D but that leads to a lot of confusion.

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Voadam said:

There is Original D&D, a three book boxed set from 1974 with supplemements I-IV (Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry, and Gods, Demigods, and Heroes). That is generally referred to as OD&D. O for origninal or 0 for 0e as preceding 1e.

In 1977 there was the Holmes Basic Set with a blue box and red dragon cover art. It was a precursor to 1e covering slightly different rules from Oe. Five point alignment for example was new.

1e 1977-79 came out with the 1e MM, PH, and DMG and used a bunch of OD&D rules with the rules from the supplements and Holmes Basic and its own stuff. 1e established nine point alignment for example.

1981 you had the Tom Moldvay B/X basic set (B/X stands for the Moldvay Basic and Dave Cook Expert sets from 1981) which was a distinct rules system with different stat modifiers, race as class, and going back to OD&D 3 point alignment.

1983 Had the Frank Mentzer BECMI basic set rules (Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortals sets) which were basically B/X with tiny differences and higher level add ons.

Later there was the Rules Cyclopedia basically compiling BECMI except for the immortals set into one book.

Then the Black box basic rules which covered BECMI levels 1-5.

So 1981 B/X basic on is basically one compatible line of interchangeable basic rules repackaging and what most refer to as Basic D&D.

OD&D is an earlier D&D system with distinct rules about as different from later basic as 1e is. Some call the Basic D&D line OD&D but that leads to a lot of confusion.

Click to expand...