OSR Does anybody know anything about this OSR adventure: Gods of the Forbidden North?

Gus L said:

So while I don't like the politics here (but mostly based on this dude's social media), what I'm seeing makes me very doubtful of the design. This all sounds very 90's RPG and old VtM books are easy to find if I want to read edge-lord fluff about religion. One can be interesting with religion and Christian themes even. 1984's Dragonraid always sounded fascinating with its scriptural spell casting, and Dogs in the Vineyard actually manages supernatural good and evil battling over souls in a compelling way. Pendragon has also always handled these themes well.

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It won an ENNIE and is currently a Platinum best seller on Drive-Thru. Maybe you ought to be taking notes from him...

agrayday said:

This does beg the question of what criteria were the Ennie judges basing their elevation of this product as a "winner" on?

Seems like or impression wise, it was the art and presentation vs content?

Do we think any of them ran it or read it?

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From the website:

"After the submission deadline, the judges have roughly two months to come up with a list of nominees. Discussions throughout the year help but these last few months will see a large increase in communication as judges come to a consensus on products. Once the deadline for said consensus is reached, we take that info and prepare for the announcement to the public.

At this point, the judge’s job is effectively done but the staff’s gets tougher. ENNIES staff start the process of getting the voting booth ready; going to great lengths to make sure everything is up and running and works properly both on the voter’s end and on the back end.

After voting, we take all of the winners and compile them. We create all of the material, such as the nominee’s certificates, the winner’s certificates, the booth flyers, and the ceremony program. Throughout the year, we also work with Gen Con on the logistics of the booth, ceremony room, etc. and we finalize the process. We get all the paper printed up and frame all of the winner’s certificates."

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Jahydin said:

It won an ENNIE and is currently a Platinum best seller on Drive-Thru. Maybe you ought to be taking notes from him...

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I'm just gonna say I find this hilarious.

Gus L said:

No I don't think so.

I don't put much stock in either of those metrics, and make my hobby stuff for my own amusement.

That said, since you seem to value these sort of things. I happen to have an Ennie (without submitting anything to the worthless things ever...) along with a few platinum bestsellers and I think a couple of mithril ones... and that without Kickstarters or promotion beyond sending free copies to people I like and blogging once every few months.

Am I 100% correct now or have your values changed?

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First off, that's amazing, congratulations. Clearly you don't need to take notes, haha.

Second, disappointed you think the ENNIES are worthless. I think they're pretty valuable on shining a spotlight on lesser known creators and get them some much deserved recognition.

Third, as for being "correct", I valued your opinion even before I knew you were a successful creator; I was just poking fun at your "matter of fact" tone dumping on this product that's clearly being enjoyed by a lot of people. Not sure if you were just offering your personal opinion or wanting the author to rewrite the darn thing right now just for you, haha.

Jahydin said:

Second, disappointed you think the ENNIES are worthless. I think they're pretty valuable on shining a spotlight on lesser known creators and get them some much deserved recognition.

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Lesser known? Pathfinder and CoC pretty much win every year. They don't do much highlighting.

Jahydin said:

Third, as for being "correct", I valued your opinion even before I knew you were a successful creator; I was just poking fun at your "matter of fact" tone dumping on this product that's clearly being enjoyed by a lot of people. Not sure if you were just offering your personal opinion or wanting the author to rewrite the darn thing right now just for you, haha.

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I'm not laughing.

You weren't just asking questions or poking fun in a friendly way. You clearly wanted to support this work, stop criticism of it, and to shame someone who doesn't think it sounds very good. Why? We all know why.

Gus L said:

You weren't just asking questions or poking fun in a friendly way. You clearly wanted to support this work, stop criticism of it, and to shame someone who doesn't think it sounds very good. Why? We all know why.

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Well this isn't true at all... Just because I don't agree with others that the lore needs to be changed doesn't mean I don't value their opinion. And shut them down? I engage so I can learn, also they can expound and talk more about it; kind of the opposite, right?.

And "we all know why"? What is this about?

Look, sorry if upset you. It was just a fun poke that I took back. Please, continue your rant about how this product is so terrible and how you could do so much better.

Jahydin said:

Well this isn't true at all... Just because I don't agree with others that the lore needs to be changed doesn't mean I don't value their opinion. And shut them down? I engage so I can learn, also they can expound and talk more about it; kind of the opposite, right?.

And "we all know why"? What is this about?

Look, sorry if upset you. It was just a fun poke that I took back. Please, continue your rant about how this product is so terrible and how you could do so much better.

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Zak S won a bunch of Ennies as well. That's not proof that someone isn't a problematic person, and doesn't mean that we can't have a discussion of the problematic elements in their work.

Jahydin said:

Well this isn't true at all... Just because I don't agree with others that the lore needs to be changed doesn't mean I don't value their opinion. And shut them down? I engage so I can learn, also they can expound and talk more about it; kind of the opposite, right?.

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Just to be clear, you're attributing an intentionality that no one critical of the product in this thread has alluded to.

No one here is saying the author "should" change the lore. We are mostly being critical of it because it's kinda lazy and, in the broader context of the author's social media presence, a little bit "sus".

I'm sure we all agree here the author can write whatever he wants. It's his art after all.

Like I said before. I didn't mind that the author took the actual Doctrine of the Catholic Church and made an almost 1:1 copy for his fantasy religion. I just found it boring and lazy and, dare I say, preachy.

But when @Libertad brought up the Musk supporting posts it suddenly made click why the book didn't pass the vibe check.

The fact that, as someone else noticed, the evil cults are basically the Pizza Gate conspiracy ended up cementing the idea.

I reiterate, maybe I'm missing a modern classic. The Masks of Nyarlathotep of our time. But, given all we've discussed here, it's a hard pass for me and it may be for others.

Afroconan said:

Just to be clear, you're attributing an intentionality that no one critical of the product in this thread has alluded to.

No one here is saying the author "should" change the lore. We are mostly being critical of it because it's kinda lazy and, in the broader context of the author's social media presence, a little bit "sus".

I'm sure we all agree here the author can write whatever he wants. It's his art after all.

Like I said before. I didn't mind that the author took the actual Doctrine of the Catholic Church and made an almost 1:1 copy for his fantasy religion. I just found it boring and lazy and, dare I say, preachy.

But when @Libertad brought up the Musk supporting posts it suddenly made click why the book didn't pass the vibe check.

The fact that, as someone else noticed, the evil cults are basically the Pizza Gate conspiracy ended up cementing the idea.

I reiterate, maybe I'm missing a modern classic. The Masks of Nyarlathotep of our time. But, given all we've discussed here, it's a hard pass for me and it may be for others.

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Also, FWIW, the author has a habit of liking and retweeting posts by problematic creators or those associated with conservative or alt-right views: the author of ACKS, RPGPundit (who he just conducted an interview with), the Basic Expert (who was the one who made the Elon Musk tweet), Melan, The Red Room, and a few others. It's a pattern, not just someone liking and retweeting a post about how Musk should buy D&D.

Afroconan said:

Just to be clear, you're attributing an intentionality that no one critical of the product in this thread has alluded to....

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You are being far more understanding with these posters then I could bother to be and I salute you for it (as well as your careful documentation of the text in discussion).

I've been re-reading this tonight instead of posting.