OSR Does anybody know anything about this OSR adventure: Gods of the Forbidden North?

Afroconan · Feb 20, 2025

Jahydin said:
@AfroconanPersonally, I think it's kind of refreshing to see this sort of take in fantasy. I'm pretty burned out on "the church is secretly corrupt", "the church actually never had real power", or "the 'evil' beings are just misunderstood" tropes myself. One of the reasons I still love the Exorcist.

Yes. As I said I wouldn't have an issue with it if not for the way they chose to present it.

It would be "refreshing" for me if it was not blatant Catholicism with clear real world parallels.

Like, maybe I'm presuposing too much but I'm sure the author is the kind who would have issues with "politics in media". But seems to have a huge blindspot when it comes to their own biases.

Maybe it's my own Catholic background plus growing up in a country with a colonialism background and subjected to imperialism through most of its history, but I found it all very jarring.

Whizbang Dustyboots · Feb 21, 2025

Afroconan said:
Yes. As I said I wouldn't have an issue with it if not for the way they chose to present it.

It would be "refreshing" for me if it was not blatant Catholicism with clear real world parallels.

Like, maybe I'm presuposing too much but I'm sure the author is the kind who would have issues with "politics in media". But seems to have a huge blindspot when it comes to their own biases.

Maybe it's my own Catholic background plus growing up in a country with a colonialism background and subjected to imperialism through most of its history, but I found it all very jarring.

I think any time someone presents a fantasy Catholic Church that is inarguably the good guys and unblemished, that's a highly political take, one that even most Catholics would disagree with.

In contrast, in Ptolus (the setting I've been using since 2006), there's a very obvious fantasy Catholic Church, but they're complicated, to put it mildly. There are heroes and villains in the church and its history is a mix of very good and very bad.

Not only does that feel fairer to the audience, it's also a lot better for gaming purposes.

thirdkingdom · Feb 21, 2025

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I think any time someone presents a fantasy Catholic Church that is inarguably the good guys and unblemished, that's a highly political take, one that even most Catholics would disagree with.

In contrast, in Ptolus (the setting I've been using since 2006), there's a very obvious fantasy Catholic Church, but they're complicated, to put it mildly. There are heroes and villains in the church and its history is a mix of very good and very bad.

Not only does that feel fairer to the audience, it's also a lot better for gaming purposes.

Yeah, no kidding. Talk about fantasy.

Jahydin · Feb 21, 2025

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I think any time someone presents a fantasy Catholic Church that is inarguably the good guys and unblemished, that's a highly political take, one that even most Catholics would disagree with.

I think everyone knows no organization in real life is perfect, which is why fantasy is fun way to explore versions that are. Like I know in real life pirates were terrible people that did terrible things, but there's just something about them that I love. So, I write a pirate RPG where pirates are actually misunderstood freedom fighters. I get to role-play what I love without any of the "ick"; the power of fantasy!

Which is also what "no politics" means to me at least: "This world of mine is completely fantastical and I don't want to drag the real world into any discussions of it."

Whizbang Dustyboots · Feb 21, 2025

Jahydin said:
I think everyone knows no organization in real life is perfect, which is why fantasy is fun way to explore versions that are. Like I know in real life pirates were terrible people that did terrible things, but there's just something about them that I love. So, I write a pirate RPG where pirates are actually misunderstood freedom fighters. I get to role-play what I love without any of the "ick"; the power of fantasy!

There's a major strand of "pirates were actually an experiment in democracy" that runs through modern scholarship about pirates.

I read one or more non-fiction books about pirates most summers. This one is a decent read https://www.amazon.com/Republic-Pirates-Surprising-Caribbean-Brought/dp/015603462X

Jahydin said:
Which is also what "no politics" means to me at least: "This world of mine is completely fantastical and I don't want to drag the real world into any discussions of it."

Including a very recognizable real world religion, with a lot of obvious editorializing about it, doesn't accomplish that, though.

In my experience, "no politics" really means "no politics that I'm personally uncomfortable with."

The Firebird · Feb 21, 2025

Depending on how much you can separate it, I found it a refreshing take on the genre. A lot of sword-and-sorcery inspired stuff has these evil, otherworldly gods, expressing a fear of the unknown or the void, almost Lovecraftian. GotFN has that but also has a cosmic order that means good will triumph.

I met the author at a con and he was a very nice dude, and didn't seem to push an agenda during play.

But those elements are definitely present in the text, and if that bothers you it may not be the right mod.

Jahydin · Feb 23, 2025

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
There's a major strand of "pirates were actually an experiment in democracy" that runs through modern scholarship about pirates.

Did not know that, thanks. Hopeful, you still got the gist of where I was going?

Taking real world people/organizations and using them as a basis for whatever cool idea you want to create doesn't have to be a statement on how they really behave/operate; it could just as well be how you wished they behaved/operated or not be a statement at all.

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I read one or more non-fiction books about pirates most summers. This one is a decent read https://www.amazon.com/Republic-Pirates-Surprising-Caribbean-Brought/dp/015603462X

Looks like a pretty cool book! Will certainly add that to my reading list...

Whizbang Dustyboots · Feb 23, 2025

Jahydin said:
Taking real world people/organizations and using them as a basis for whatever cool idea you want to create doesn't have to be a statement on how they really behave/operate; it could just as well be how you wished they behaved/operated or not be a statement at all.

For sure. But that is still political speech, even if it's intended to be "in a better world (with world-ending undead looming in the darkness), this is how the Catholic Church would be."

It doesn't become "not political" just because the author doesn't want to talk politics after getting the last word in.

NN · Feb 24, 2025

Is The Problem the whitewashing of Catholicism or is it actually the inane certainties of the D&D alignment system?

Libertad · Feb 24, 2025

The problem is that the author has chosen to signal-boost hateful reactionaries on social media. The portrayal of a Fantasy Counterpart Catholicism is definitely a concern. But I'm much more concerned about a guy who seems to think that Elon Musk, who spreads conspiracy theories about Jews promoting white genocide and fired the Twitter moderation staff responsible for monitoring against child abuse content on Twitter (and even reinstated one account that posted such stuff), should buy WotC.

OSR Does anybody know anything about this OSR adventure: Gods of the Forbidden North?

Afroconan

Explorer

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero

thirdkingdom

Hero

Jahydin

Hero

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero

The Firebird

Explorer

Jahydin

Hero

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero

NN

Explorer

Libertad

Legend

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