D&D 3E/3.5 The 4E We Didnt Get.

delericho · Nov 17, 2024

My big problem with fixing 3.5e was that there was always one more thing wanting a fix - I'd start with a small list of fixes, then find a few more, then another... just one more...

I find exactly the same issue with 5e. Which means it's probably a me thing - I just won't be happy unless I've completely rewritten whatever game I'm playing.

Except that even that doesn't help. Back in 2nd Ed days I really did rewrite more or less the whole game... only to complete the project and decide I didn't like it.

Zardnaar · Nov 17, 2024

delericho said:
My big problem with fixing 3.5e was that there was always one more thing wanting a fix - I'd start with a small list of fixes, then find a few more, then another... just one more...

I find exactly the same issue with 5e. Which means it's probably a me thing - I just won't be happy unless I've completely rewritten whatever game I'm playing.

Except that even that doesn't help. Back in 2nd Ed days I really did rewrite more or less the whole game... only to complete the project and decide I didn't like it.

I fave up and used about 2 pages if house rules mostly a ban list.

The core needs a rewrite 4E or 5E engines an improvement inho.

_Michael_ · Nov 18, 2024

The everlasting pursuit of gaming glory. Of all the editions, I think 3.5e came closest to perfection specifically because of its verisimilitude and sheer number of alternative rule sets that fit within its OGL framework. For the detail oriented, it was capable of being expanded. For those who wanted a stripped down version, it was capable of being simplified.

Emerikol · Nov 20, 2024

_Michael_ said:
This thread is only a month or so old since last post so I hope I'm not necro-ing the thread.

All you had to use was a raise dead and not a resurrection.

_Michael_ · Nov 21, 2024

Emerikol said:
All you had to use was a raise dead and not a resurrection.

It was more than ten days, so...lol

rabindranath72 · Nov 24, 2024

Orius said:
That depends on what people want to fix. Different people have different tastes and not everyone who wants to patch 3e wants to do it with PF. For me, PF is a source of mostly compatible material that can be mined, but it also seems to do the sort of things that 3.5 did that I didn't like.

I am definitely in the same camp, although I quite like some aspects of PF: for example different rates of XP progression, explicit guidelines for low-magic campaigns, reduced skill lists, level-independent XP values for monsters/traps. But I could never run it as-is, even core book only. Infinite cantrips would have to disappear; I hate them with a passion (but, with core only I could import the relevant columns from 3e.) Other class abilities would need curbing, most notably: no Pokemon Paladin mounts; Druids prohibition would apply to weapons as well as armor (as in 3.0; this was removed in 3.5), and no Summon Nature Ally spontaneous casting. Magic Item creation would still be a sore point. At least 3.0 had the "Power Components" variant, which however cannot be imported as-is in Pathfinder as it doesn't have XP for magic items. Just to name the most glaring stuff.

_Michael_ · Nov 24, 2024

rabindranath72 said:
I am definitely in the same camp, although I quite like some aspects of PF: for example different rates of XP progression, explicit guidelines for low-magic campaigns, reduced skill lists, level-independent XP values for monsters/traps. But I could never run it as-is, even core book only. Infinite cantrips would have to disappear; I hate them with a passion (but, with core only I could import the relevant columns from 3e.) Other class abilities would need curbing, most notably: no Pokemon Paladin mounts; Druids prohibition would apply to weapons as well as armor (as in 3.0; this was removed in 3.5), and no Summon Nature Ally spontaneous casting. Magic Item creation would still be a sore point. At least 3.0 had the "Power Components" variant, which however cannot be imported as-is in Pathfinder as it doesn't have XP for magic items. Just to name the most glaring stuff.

Are there any suggestios from PF and the 3.5e you would suggest for creating a low-magic world? I haven't yet perused the PF books I dl'd, but if there's any specific suggestions for low-magic campaigns, I'm all ears.

Another question: is there any forum threads specifically for adapting those two rulesets for low-magic? If not, do you think there'd be enough interest in starting one? I would love to capture that magic-is-rare-but-wonderous-and-full-of-history vibe from franchises like Lord of the Rings, and having a list of changes to the 3.5e and PF would be awesome (considering PF is magic-heavy and all). I was trying to come up with a magic fatigue system to more realistically reflect the strain of magical energy on the mind a la Dark Sun.

cbwjm · Nov 24, 2024

_Michael_ said:
Are there any suggestios from PF and the 3.5e you would suggest for creating a low-magic world? I haven't yet perused the PF books I dl'd, but if there's any specific suggestions for low-magic campaigns, I'm all ears.

Another question: is there any forum threads specifically for adapting those two rulesets for low-magic? If not, do you think there'd be enough interest in starting one? I would love to capture that magic-is-rare-but-wonderous-and-full-of-history vibe from franchises like Lord of the Rings, and having a list of changes to the 3.5e and PF would be awesome (considering PF is magic-heavy and all). I was trying to come up with a magic fatigue system to more realistically reflect the strain of magical energy on the mind a la Dark Sun.

I think that with the math calculating all the various bonuses for weapons and armour, you could likely make those bonuses inherent bonuses gained as you level up. It was an option in 4e though I'm not sure about 3e.

Voadam · Nov 24, 2024

3.5 had Unearthed Arcana with a couple options like reserve point healing that was sort of a precursor to 4e healing surges/full recovery on long rest that allow a campaign without magical healing to be more like a classic D&D experience of not needing to stop to rest multiple days for every wound you want to heal.

Reducing PC magic I often saw a house rule of maxing out casting classes to half your caster level, so a 5/5 sorcerer/wizard has a bunch of low level slots but maximum of 3rd level spells at 10th level with half the casting power of a normal 10th level caster (5d6 lightning bolts instead of 10d6 lightning bolts).

4e you could do the DMG2/Dark Sun inherent bonuses to remove magic items and stick to martial classes to remove casters entirely and the game will play fine with standard encounters no changes needed.

_Michael_ · Nov 24, 2024

Maybe we should make a thread for low-magic options and resources for 3.5e. That way, we could list all the different options and/or possibilities for alternative rules. What did PF have for "explicit guidelines" for low-magic campaigns as Rabindranath mentioned above?

D&D 3E/3.5 The 4E We Didnt Get.

delericho

Legend

Zardnaar

Legend

_Michael_

Explorer

Emerikol

Legend

_Michael_

Explorer

rabindranath72

Adventurer

_Michael_

Explorer

cbwjm

Seb-wejem

Voadam

Legend

_Michael_

Explorer

Similar Threads

Trending content