Understandable that you'd think this, but the creature entering the area means that it has to be the creature that is propelled into the effect, not the other way around.
An ally shoving a creature into the area of effect would work though!
Level Up (A5E) Sources of extra movement
- Thread starter Gnome Rager
- Start date
An ally shoving a creature into the area of effect would work though!
Gnome Rager
Explorer
I don't buy this. Either my interpretation works or @lichmaster is right and it has to be voluntary.
If forced movement works then the cleric moving should trigger the damage
W'rkncacnter
Hero
scout rogue?
Lol your can run your game as you like, but the wording here isn't exclusive to A5E. You can just look up how 5e14 spirit guardians worked. A5E nerfed spirit guardians' damage and range, it didn't change how verbiage works. Though they did, probably accidentally, mess up spirit guardians' wording re: whom you choose is affected by it. RAW you only choose who's immune to the movement slow, but every creature takes the damage
Probably not RAI though.
Gnome Rager
Explorer
I did notice the everyone takes the damage bitLol your can run your game as you like, but the wording here isn't exclusive to A5E. You can just look up how 5e14 spirit guardians worked. A5E nerfed spirit guardians' damage and range, it didn't change how verbiage works. Though they did, probably accidentally, mess up spirit guardians' wording re: whom you choose is affected by it. RAW you only choose who's immune to the movement slow, but every creature takes the damage
Probably not RAI though.
lichmaster
Hero
So, I'm looking on a5e.tools as I don't have hardcovers or pdfs at hand atm, and I haven't found a precise paragraph yet.
However I'd say that if the trick of moving towards a character could trigger Spirit Guardians because the target "enters" the area, then by the same rationale one character with Polearm Savant could make an opportunity attack while moving towards a target because the target "enters" the threatened area (instead of the target moving towards the Polearm Savant, as usual).
Also, a character could make an attack of opportunity while moving away from an enemy because the enemy "leaves" the threatened area but didn't disengage.
Both of these are obviously not right, so relative movement doesn't seem to be a thing in this context: what matter is who is actually moving during the action. By extension (and until I find an official rule) I think this would also exclude zapping around the battlefield and having spirit guardians deal AOE damage (effectively covering an area larger than the area of the spell itself!) with no save and without even spending an action or reaction.
I'll keep looking for this specific thing on the PDF when I have time, it bugs me to be unable to find a direct explanation for how "on enter" conditions work. If there's one thing I really passionately dislike about 5e is its departure from a keywords system as we had in 3.5.
Also, not directly relevant as it's for 5e, but there's this moonbeam question at pag 19 of Sage Advice
However I have to partially correct myself, as it seems that the voluntarity of movement seems to be important only for attacks of opportunity but not for hazards: being dragged or pushed into a hazard does seem to trigger the "on enter" clause, but being forcefully pushed out of a threatened area doesn't trigger attacks of opportunity. I'm not fond of this asymmetry TBH.
However I'd say that if the trick of moving towards a character could trigger Spirit Guardians because the target "enters" the area, then by the same rationale one character with Polearm Savant could make an opportunity attack while moving towards a target because the target "enters" the threatened area (instead of the target moving towards the Polearm Savant, as usual).
Also, a character could make an attack of opportunity while moving away from an enemy because the enemy "leaves" the threatened area but didn't disengage.
Both of these are obviously not right, so relative movement doesn't seem to be a thing in this context: what matter is who is actually moving during the action. By extension (and until I find an official rule) I think this would also exclude zapping around the battlefield and having spirit guardians deal AOE damage (effectively covering an area larger than the area of the spell itself!) with no save and without even spending an action or reaction.
I'll keep looking for this specific thing on the PDF when I have time, it bugs me to be unable to find a direct explanation for how "on enter" conditions work. If there's one thing I really passionately dislike about 5e is its departure from a keywords system as we had in 3.5.
Also, not directly relevant as it's for 5e, but there's this moonbeam question at pag 19 of Sage Advice
However I have to partially correct myself, as it seems that the voluntarity of movement seems to be important only for attacks of opportunity but not for hazards: being dragged or pushed into a hazard does seem to trigger the "on enter" clause, but being forcefully pushed out of a threatened area doesn't trigger attacks of opportunity. I'm not fond of this asymmetry TBH.
Gnome Rager
Explorer
This is a really helpful comparison that I find quite convincing. If I pretend that my guardian spirits work the same as a big stick and remember that the rules aren't a physics simulator. There is a resource cost in the form of concentration though.
The comparison with hazardous areas is more frustrating if my guardian spirits as being closer to a hazardous area than a big stick. But I guess other hazards don't tend to follow you around.
This has been quite the thread derailment but I think it's been useful.
Deadmanshand
Explorer
Perhaps I am missing something, but I interpret the situation a bit differently. If the cleric moves with the spirit guardians spell and that movement envelops new enemies, they do not take damage from “entering” the area of the spirits, but they do take damage from starting their round in said area. That means that if the cleric’s movement causes the “envelope” of the spell to pass over an enemy only briefly, there will be no damage.
Attacks of opportunity not affecting involuntary movement is a bit different. I can only surmise that the intention of the rule has to do with speed. Unlike standard movement, which is essentially walking speed, being pushed or passing by an enemy from falling is so rapid that there isn’t time to make an attack. That is my head canon anyway.
Attacks of opportunity not affecting involuntary movement is a bit different. I can only surmise that the intention of the rule has to do with speed. Unlike standard movement, which is essentially walking speed, being pushed or passing by an enemy from falling is so rapid that there isn’t time to make an attack. That is my head canon anyway.
lichmaster
Hero
That would be 100% ok for me, but I think the original idea of the "build" was for the spirit guardians damage to proc for every "on enter", not just at the start of the turn on enemies still standing in the area.
That's what I think too. However I can also imagine a situation where one party member armlocks an enemy and drags it away more slowly in order to give another party member an attack of opportunity. This would make sense to me, as the armlock may mean basically no defenses, but I think RAW it wouldn't qualify
lichmaster
Hero
I apologize for that!
If it helps, one combination that might be interesting for you could be casting spirit guardians and then taunting the enemies to get in. If you have good defenses then you can face tank several of them, inflicting the spirit guardians damage at every turn. Top it up with some Riposte type maneuvers (available for the rogue), proccing when enemies miss you, and I think you can have a solid synergy for a cleric/rogue
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