D&D General Mike Mearls sits down with Ben from Questing Beast

One thing I thought about a lot when I was listening to this, was that for the most part I agree with him, except I don't think that his "getting back to the basics" and anti-playing-for-rules ("why am I adding numbers as a barbarian!?") works very well for a significant portion of experienced players who don't have severe time constraints.

Which he said as much in terms of the existing market of the old 3.x players. But I think one thing is that new players don't stay new forever. Which is I think something thats been playing itself out for a while?

DND fandom spaces since before XGTE were essentially policing themselves in their desires-- just jump back to like, the mystic debate and you can see a lot of people arguing directly that other people need to cut out their expectations to stop the game from growing the beard.

In that sense, they did "err on the side of being too accessible" but in such a backloaded way that I think we're only now seeing it play out. Specifically, I think they erred by letting that tone overtake the whole product line, instead of just the core.

Homebrew and Third Party has been acting as a pressure valve for that sentiment.

Also, kinda related-- its weird to me that systems oriented players are characterized as such a small possible demographic, my sense is that they're damn everywhere and games that cater to them in the broader games space do really well.
 

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One thing I thought about a lot when I was listening to this, was that for the most part I agree with him, except I don't think that his "getting back to the basics" and anti-playing-for-rules ("why am I adding numbers as a barbarian!?") works very well for a significant portion of experienced players who don't have severe time constraints.

Which he said as much in terms of the existing market of the old 3.x players. But I think one thing is that new players don't stay new forever. Which is I think something thats been playing itself out for a while?

DND fandom spaces since before XGTE were essentially policing themselves in their desires-- just jump back to like, the mystic debate and you can see a lot of people arguing directly that other people need to cut out their expectations to stop the game from growing the beard.

In that sense, they did "err on the side of being too accessible" but in such a backloaded way that I think we're only now seeing it play out. Specifically, I think they erred by letting that tone overtake the whole product line, instead of just the core.

Homebrew and Third Party has been acting as a pressure valve for that sentiment.

Also, kinda related-- its weird to me that systems oriented players are characterized as such a small possible demographic, my sense is that they're damn everywhere and games that cater to them in the broader games space do really well.
I think that there is also some "channel the criticism/meme" without even acknowledging why the other side of that criticism liked it when discussing things that segment of more experienced players miss going on with that self policing.

A perfect example is when he mentions the old dc tables and references an example of DC to climb a wall slick with butter. That exchange both parodies the actual reasonable example of "climb a slick brick wall" entry and completely dismisses the "who could do it∆" entry attached to it as a thing to even notice or consider that others might have value in such a metric. Not only that is the ignored fact that the old dc chart went all the way with who could do it to give examples of things where difficulty and conditions could tax exen a high level hyper specialized individual who needs to roll high by going up to examples like tracking a goblin that passed over hard rocks a week ago, and it snowed yesterday§.


5e & the whole back to basics push really struggles to even pretend there is merit to having a distinction other than fiat dividing could do and almost certainly guaranteed to succeed in doing. The constant trend to caricaturize anything slightly more complex into ad-absurdum territory very much lays bare the need to do better.

∆ it's a high level barbarian who could do it

§ it's 20th-level ranger who has maxed out his Survival skill and has been fighting goblinoids who could do it.
 

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