D&D General How would you make this ruling? Vortex Warp

jgsugden · Tuesday at 12:59 AM

How I handle these situations: I let the player tell me what they want to happen and then I set a DC for a spellcrafting roll (using Arcana for wizards, etc...). If they beat the DC, the spell works as they desire. If not, it works the other way.

However, in this instance I'd be careful of Pandora's Box. If the druid goes with the frog, the PCs can call that precedent and then use abilities to change form and then absorb huge amounts of material to transport it. They can 'Monstro' a village population and then teleport the entire village with one spell.

James Gasik · Tuesday at 1:48 AM

One game where this sort of thing worked really well was Star Wars Saga. Upon being attacked by a combat droid, I asked the GM if my engineer could reach in and pull out a part, something Iron Man and Spider-Man (gotta have the hyphen!) tend to do. He frowned, then said "aha, you can try if you spend a Force point!".

Having a meta-currency for tacit permission to do something fuzzy with the rules but on a limited basis makes for some fun moments.

el-remmen · Tuesday at 2:21 AM

I'd probably rule that they can try to teleport monster sans druid, but the difficulty of such precision makes the monster save with Advantage.

Easy-Peasy.

DrJawaPhD · Tuesday at 4:11 AM

bloodtide said:
Though you might see the crack as soon as this is used on a player. As soon as a weak kobold sorcerer frees a foe from a PCs grip, they players will be quick to cry "no fair" or "the spell should not work that way!" or the classic "this game is not consistent!"

It's not even very powerful. The kobold caster in your example is using their entire action for a CHANCE at maybe freeing their enemy teammate from a grapple if the PC fails a saving throw (on a stat that everyone puts points into).

I can't imagine any players being too worried that a spellcaster wasted their turn on something so meaningless instead of a much better 2nd level spell like scorching ray or hold person or well just about anything really

TheSword · Tuesday at 6:13 AM

DrJawaPhD said:
It's not even very powerful. The kobold caster in your example is using their entire action for a CHANCE at maybe freeing their enemy teammate from a grapple if the PC fails a saving throw (on a stat that everyone puts points into).

I can't imagine any players being too worried that a spellcaster wasted their turn on something so meaningless instead of a much better 2nd level spell like scorching ray or hold person or well just about anything really

There are lots of parasites/organisms larger than gut bacteria in the game. That would be affected by the ruling.

Would a slaad tadpole egg be automatically removed?
What about a kyuss worm?
What about a ghost possessing a character? Would teleportation of the host end the possession?
Would teleportation instantly and automatically kill a creature infested by an intellect devourer?
What about an Illithid tadpole? That would kind of put a downer on Baldurs Gate 3.

Come to think of it would an Illithid nautilus deposit its crew and thralls beyond 8 on the ground when it planeshifted away?

It feels like a corner case but I’ve used intellect devourers, kyuss worms, possessing ghosts and slaad eggs a lot more than I’ve had monsters teleported/teleport after swallowing someone whole.

DrJawaPhD · Tuesday at 7:06 AM

TheSword said:
There are lots of parasites/organisms larger than gut bacteria in the game. That would be affected by the ruling.

FWIW I was only stating it is not a powerful ability to use against PCs to break an enemy monster out of grappling (or if a PC somehow swallowed a monster, totally doable with Polymorph). Not that it couldn't be used to create other powerful use cases.

In your examples, I'd rule eggs and tadpoles aren't creatures so unaffected, ghost also not affected because they are incorporeal and disappear they are not physically "inside" the target, intellect devourer definitely yes that would kill the infested creature, and I have no idea what a kyuss worm is. There's plenty of room to rule whatever you like though

TheSword · Tuesday at 7:34 AM

DrJawaPhD said:
FWIW I was only stating it is not a powerful ability to use against PCs to break an enemy monster out of grappling (or if a PC somehow swallowed a monster, totally doable with Polymorph). Not that it couldn't be used to create other powerful use cases.

In your examples, I'd rule eggs and tadpoles aren't creatures so unaffected, ghost also not affected because they are incorporeal and disappear they are not physically "inside" the target, intellect devourer definitely yes that would kill the infested creature, and I have no idea what a kyuss worm is. There's plenty of room to rule whatever you like though

A tadpole isn’t a creature? How do you reach that conclusion?

Kyuss worms are small worms - that burrow under the skin and make their way to the brain and kill the host. Multiplying to infest the creature to create a spawn of kyuss. They’re a D&D classic.

Paul Farquhar · Tuesday at 7:55 AM

bloodtide · Tuesday at 10:07 PM

DrJawaPhD said:
It's not even very powerful. The kobold caster in your example is using their entire action for a CHANCE at maybe freeing their enemy teammate from a grapple if the PC fails a saving throw (on a stat that everyone puts points into).

I can't imagine any players being too worried that a spellcaster wasted their turn on something so meaningless instead of a much better 2nd level spell like scorching ray or hold person or well just about anything really

I think you missed the trick: the kobold caster would cast it on their ally, not the PC......

W'rkncacnter · Tuesday at 10:14 PM

bloodtide said:
I think you missed the trick: the kobold caster would cast it on their ally, not the PC......

...except that's the opposite scenario from that described in the OP. it's straight up irrelevant.

also, that's like...a completely standard use case for the spell. i just saw the wizard use that trick to save the rogue from water weirds this past saturday. i don't know why you think this is some unexpected gotcha.

D&D General How would you make this ruling? Vortex Warp

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