D&D 5E 5e Psion+++++thread

I also want to say, I don't think it necessarily matters that a lot of people have a different opinion on what the Psion should look like mechanically. Quite frankly, this applies to every class. The only thing that matters if 5E choosing a direction that works for the game and applying it uniformly. We already have Psionic subclasses, we already have a Psi Die system and power point system, all we need to do is combine them into the Psion and call it a day.

Online, you can find alternative versions of the current "canon" 13 classes. You can find homebrew classes that channel the spirit but change the name. You can find 3rd party classes that are slimmer version of the core 13. In other words, people already make alternatives of what we have. The fact that there can be alternatives for the Psion just doesn't matter when we look at the actual reality of the D&D ecosystem.

People like to say things like "But will it hit 70%?" Hitting 70% is more about presentation than mechanics. And while mechanics are a part of presentation, they aren't the entire thing. Let's say they put out a UA for a Psion class. It cast spells, but through Psi Die, and can alter cantrips via Psi Points. Some people would say "But it's still spells," but since the mechanics are unique for casting the spells, I don't earnestly believe they would truly care. I think it's something people could accept, because spells are already just nebulous basic powers already.

Burning Hands. Fireball. Charm Person. Firebolt. Friends. Even Guidance -- these spells are very basic mechanical effects that you could imagine in a host of different ways. The fact that they are called spells barely even matters when monsters are given spells to replicate powers they had in previous editions. We have devils casting Wall of Fire because yeah, it makes sense that fiends from the hells can do stuff with fire/hellfire. We have Vampires casting Charm Person, which is just representing the classic "mind control" vampires in fiction can do. In other words, spells are already used for their effects to represent aspects of the fantasy world that are in any way supernatural.

I really think 3E's delineation between Exception, Supernatural, and Magic really just screwed up several generations of gamer's sense for what is happening in these games. People get all bent out of shape talking about how Arcane Magic and Psionics shouldn't be the same thing but in reality both are just magic with different titles. Both are supernatural effects. And the only difference between Psionic Powers and Arcane Spells is usually just (a) how the power is activated, such as by points or slots and (b) how the power is formatted. If these are the only two meaningful differences outside optics, then giving the Psion class a unique method of casting spells -- Psi Dice and Power Points -- and maybe saying they don't need V/S/M components pretty much achieves the same exact thing having Psionic Powers would.

I type all this, which has been said before by many people, because it just really wow's me how absolutely stagnated conversation on Psionics is. Its constantly talking about "how people have different opinions" and "how confusing it would be to have powers and spells as different things." There are easy solutions to these problems. These are not insurmountable problems. I truly believe that the BELIEF in the severity of these problems is more powerful than they themselves are in reality, and that is why we have no Psion class in 5E/R yet.

Psi Dice. Power Points. Casting spells, modifying cantrips, doing weird fun mystical stuff -- these things can make a beloved Psion class. But it has to be WotC that puts it together. That way we can finally discuss Psionics in such a way so as to think about how to better integrate them into our worlds, how to properly explore their fantasy space, and how they can be used as an example of further improving the game's reach of fantasy Archetypes.

I think only @Corinnguard will read this post but I'm glad he will lol

The Grok also suggested the dreamweaver class. Of course it was about the controll of dreams.

Now I am thinking about something like the Spirit Realm from Kara-Tur, with a touch of Kakuriyo/Reikai during the kami war of Kamigawa (Magic: the Gathering). Let's imagine the psionic manifesters could use the dream plane like a third transitive plane, next to the Feywild and Shadowfell, with a touch of mirror plane and the mythology of backrooms/liminal space. Let's imagine in the past powerful psionic manifesters tried to ascend and to reach the divinity, and they could create their own astral domains. This would be the origin of the Heavenly Bureaucracy. It really seems a nice place where you could be in the afterlife, but the office job is a true purgatory, and that if you are lucky. At least it is better than the infernal planes and you are doing some useful action

Do you remember the bizarre monsters from "Scarlet Nexus", "Once Human", "Evil Within" or "Control", the visitors from "Tokyo: Ghostwire" or the chimeras from "Astral Chain"? Those could be sources of inspiration about "monsters of the mind".

What would be the difference between sorcerers and mystics? The psionic powers could help to heal the mental health faster.

Here a possible failure is try to sell you the psion like ascetic characters style Dhalsim (Street Fighters) when the players want to be like Blanka (Street Fighters), Raiden (Mortal Kombat), or Prue Halliwell (Charmed, action-live TV show).

Shardstone said:

Laserllama is my #1 favorite content creator so I'm well aware. I love his Psion.

Personally, I feel if 5.R used Laserllama materials, it would have been a roaring success. His original classes are also fantastic. The Magus, the Psion, the Shaman, the Shaper -- Laserllama literally designs the exact things the community wants, he designs them well, and he designs them with vision in mind. It is a shame that most of the 5E community just doesn't know about this gem, because I don't think there's anyone on this forum who would dislike his takes on 5E. I'm sure there are some, but you get the gist.

Click to expand...

I came across Laser Llama's work on GM Binder shortly after I was invited by my friend/DM, almost 4 years ago, into role-playing 5e with him and his group. It was his Magus class that drew my attention to his work. I felt that his Magus class was a very good attempt at making an arcane equivalent to both the Paladin and Ranger classes. If I was to play a Magus, I probably would take up the Blade Dancer subclass as my first choice.

And if I was to take up any of his other takes on the classes, it would probably be his take on the Ranger. I feel like his version of the Ranger is much better than the WoTC version because it comes close to being the wilderness/survival expert that most players would like to see. I wonder how many players would play this version over the WoTC version, if given the opportunity.

For that matter, how many tables use or would use Laser Llama's takes on the classes over those in regular D&D if they had the chance?

Now I can't help but wonder... will Laser Llama work his magic on creating versions of the playable D&D species? That would be something.

Shardstone said:

I think only @Corinnguard will read this post but I'm glad he will lol.

Click to expand...

I have. A nice bit of Bardic Inspiration there. I was

I have an interest in psionics/psychic magic thanks to 3e and PF1. I have yet to put my mind into playing a psionicist.

The Voidrunner's Codex from EN Publishing has their own take on the Psion class.


It also has the Psyknight class.

I see two parts for the design of the updated psion: the crunch and the fluff.

WotC worries because after to publish the psionic handbook only a little number of players will buy new titles about the psionic powers. My suggestion is a new design of the psionic powers, adding the option of magic components (verbal, somatic or material) for "mystical spellcaster". Spell slots or pool of power points? If we can't agree about this then I suggest a paragraph showing the system of power points like an option.

And the psion can't be too complex or only a sorcerer with power points instead spell slots. (The sorcerers summons and throws lightbolts but the mystic is the lightbolt) It needs its own gameplay style. Here my suggestion would be two different pool of power points. One reloaded with short rests and the second with long shorts. Other tipe would be like talents, almost at-will, but with a reload action like the martial maneuvers from "Tome of Battle".

And the psion needs "brand power". Let's remember the "mythology" about the psionic powers from 1991 to 2025 is different thanks the influence of Asian speculative fiction. And the next generation of players also is different in some things. The players don't want to be Charles Xavier but Mace Windu destroying battledroids with telekinesis.

I suspect the comingsoon mystic class suffers a serious influence by the "cultivators" from xianxia fiction.

* Some player could ask her player to can use metacreativity to create tools, for example a rope with hook, grease on the floor or a pick to open the jail lock.

* Other points is mystics and ardents could be necessary to replace clerics because the censorship from certain countries don't like polytheism or superstition