D&D General Languages suck in D&D.

So far, languages have been more of an immersion element than a puzzle or road block.
The way D&D handles languages is not a good fit for using languages as a puzzle or roadblock.

Language as enhancer/detriment (advantage to checks talking to dwarves in Dwarven)
or
Language as immersive element (the fighter translates for the party while in dwarven lands)

Are better fits for D&D.
 

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For Language as barriers to work in D&D, you would need to do something like create bridge languages and "official" lingua franca which are used other than Common.

Like say Feyspeak is a mashup of Sylvan, Elven, Goblin, and Bullywug that all.

Anyone who speaks Sylvan, Elven, Goblin, or Bullywug can also speak Feyspeak at an elementary working level of fluency.

Anyone who speaks Feyspeak can speak or read Sylvan, Elven, Goblin, and Bullywug as a ln elementary level.

And 50% of native Sylvan, Elven, Goblin, and Bullywug speakers can speak Feyspeak fluently.
 

I think you might be underestimating people's tolerance for complexity when it comes to learning a new game.
I'm not the one estimating people's tolerance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't their been comments all the way back to the start of 5E that one of the reasons for it's success is accessibility to the casual and new player? And that has been achieved by removing all the fiddle bits. i.e. the crunch? As well, isn't 5E have order of magnitude more players that 1E or 3E?
For Language as barriers to work in D&D,
Why doesn't the existing system have simple barriers to it? i.e. "Written on the door is a strange script. Does any one know Draconic or have magic? No? Well then you can't open the magic door that hides the McGuffin." "Don't know DeepSpeech? Then you can't talk to the NPC that has the critical information on how to get to the McGuffin." etc.
 


Why doesn't the existing system have simple barriers to it? i.e. "Written on the door is a strange script. Does any one know Draconic or have magic? No? Well then you can't open the magic door that hides the McGuffin." "Don't know DeepSpeech? Then you can't talk to the NPC that has the critical information on how to get to the McGuffin." etc
That's typically called bad DMing if the barrier is to a mandatory route and not an optional one.

I think as an enhancer is not a good idea.

Would every dwarf have advantage talking to every other dwarf? Does every human have advantage on checks with other humans speaking common?
It's a quick and dirty way of doing native fluency proficiency.

I mean we could force players to pick a native language for their PCs and require high INT or the Linguist feat to be fluent in another language.

I conduct work in 3 languages but I'm only fully fluent in one. I can work in Spanish or Russian but it's soooooooooo much easier in English.
 
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I agree. But I was responding to a post that seemed to make an argument that the current system did/could not act as a barrier.
My point is that D&D never treated languages design as serious game design so using it as a barrier is foolish play born out of traditionalism.

D&D Languages are set up as something nice to look at. So its use should be aesthetically for immersion in best cases and for minor tweaking of real play at worse.
 


A few thoughts after thumbing through all 25 pages here:

1.) The juice is not worth the squeeze. A DM may craft a super complex language system with a huge number of languages, regional distinctions, etc... but in the end a first level ritual renders most of this complexity moot. As DMs we should make a consideration that every moment we spend crafting something PCs will bypass is a moment that we are not spending on elements they will enjoy more comprehensively. You as a DM may enjoy crafting the languages - and that is a great reason to do so regardless of whether you play D&D, but if you want to efficiently spend your time in a way that will most benefit your players, this is unlikely to get you that full glass of OJ you want.

2.) It is not just immortals that would stabilize the language - it is the presence of magic. We've seen movement towards global stabilization in the 125 years of modern technology we've had that have facilitated spoken word being transmitted across the globe ... in most campaign worlds this type of transmission of words has been possible through magic for tens of thousands of years.

3.) In my setting I have 'practical magic'. This is a recognition that it wouldn't just be adventurers that are having magic items made - it would be the rich and powerful merchants, nobles and royalty. Their needs would be different. They'd be far more like the magic we desire from our cell phones. Magic items that cast comprehend languages, light, message, sending ... and magic items that do what other technologies do or that people in power wish they could do : disguise self, charm person, command, dominate person, suggestion, unseen servant. A toy that casts phantasmal force on you so that you can experience an ... illusion ... of your choice. These magic items are not like technology that lasts 2 to 5 years - they last essentially forever. That means they'd pile up in cities or places where the long lived folk gather. Most wealthy homes have permanent unseen servants. The upper class show off their power and wealth by owning a plethora of magical gadgets. And in the end - with this practical magic floating around ... the importance of languages drops out considerably. YMMV - but this makes so much sense to me. And with all of this stuff available, an earring of comprehend languages is something a lot of PCs acquire early on.

4.) D&D is not the real world and language may not be the same. Orcs were created by Gruumsh. Did they have language from the moment of creation? If so, would that language be an inherent part of what an orc is? Do they really learn to speak orc as they age, or does the ability to speak it just manifest? YMMV if you have evolution explain the existence of all these species in your game rather than magic ... but in mine, this is the way. Orc is orc because Gruumsh made it orc.
 

There are two scenarios where spoken languages matter one jot to me:
1) Where a specific PC gets to have some backstory cultural touchstone.
2) Where I want the wizard to burn a spell slot casting Comprehend Languages.
Written language is a bit different because you can use them as clues for players to decipher, or enlist the ancient NPC that speaks that specific dialect of ancient Dwarvish, but largely I’m going to avoid using another language to put a barrier between me and the players.
 

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