Curious Questions

I have 2 questions.
#1 Question. Why are people saying that the AD&D 2E are the original rules for the spells that were changed with their compendiums when the spells are the same spells brought over from the Unearthed Arcana 1st ed? I see there a lot of corrections that were made for the spell components but the details of the spells r directly from the Unearthed Arcan and AD&D 1ed PHB.
In my opinion, the 2ed just complicated everything with the spells by combining the Clerics with Druid Spells and the Magic-Users with Illusionists spells. And then destroying the fact that demi-humans cannot use certain magical fields. It is this that I despise about the 2nd ed in fact. Corrections are fine, but claiming something that is not true ruins a game.
#2 question.
Why are the encumbrances of weapons and some items WAAAAY off in AD&D 1ed? Who came up with a 2-Handed Sword weighing 25 lbs or 250 cns weight and a Long Sword being 6 lbs, which, btw is the actual weight of a heavy 2-handed sword, when a Long Sword weihs no more than 3 lbs? The encumbrances for weapons is WAAAAAY off from rl. A sledgehammr weighs no more than 20 lbs so u r telling me that a Sword weilded for battle is less than the heaviest sledgehammer? And who in their right mind is going to bring a 20 lb Spellbook on an Adventure?
I corrected all these things by researching, but this definitely needs looking into. Just some interesting thoughts as I was going through 1970-80 characters for corrections.

TY!
David

I have 2 questions.
#1 Question. Why are people saying that the AD&D 2E are the original rules for the spells that were changed with their compendiums when the spells are the same spells brought over from the Unearthed Arcana 1st ed? I see there a lot of corrections that were made for the spell components but the details of the spells r directly from the Unearthed Arcana and AD&D 1ed PHB.
In my opinion, the 2ed just complicated everything with the spells by combining the Clerics with Druid Spells and the Magic-Users with Illusionists spells. And then destroying the fact that demi-humans cannot use certain magical fields. It is this that I despise about the 2nd ed in fact. There are some things, however, I like about the 2nd ed, like the optional rule for demi-humans acquiring additional levels, the corrections for the 1ed, etc. But it seems to me that they went overboard in magical fields and requirements for spells for demi-humans. Hopefully, since I never played 3ed-6th ed they corrected these problems. However, why ruin a good thing thing with nonsense? Corrections are fine, but claiming something that is not true ruins a game.
#2 question.
Why are the encumbrances of weapons and some items WAAAAY off in AD&D 1ed? Who came up with a 2-Handed Sword weighing 25 lbs or 250 cns weight and a Long Sword being 6 lbs, which, btw is the actual weight of a heavy 2-handed sword, when a Long Sword weighs no more than 3 lbs? The encumbrances for weapons is WAAAAAY off from rl. A sledgehammer weighs no more than 20 lbs so u r telling me that a Sword wielded for battle is less than the heaviest sledgehammer? And who in their right mind is going to bring a 20 lb Spellbook on an Adventure?
I corrected all these things by researching, but this definitely needs looking into. Just some interesting thoughts as I was going through 1970-80 characters for corrections.

TY!
David

santosud37 said:

And then destroying the fact that demi-humans cannot use certain magical fields. It is this that I despise about the 2nd ed in fact. Corrections are fine, but claiming something that is not true ruins a game.

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I am not sure why you use words like ‘fact’ and ‘true’ here. This is all made up, so changing something does not mean you violated a fact and are now lying when saying something that is different from how it was in a previous edition, you simply changed something about the game

Wow - I think this may be the wrong forum for you! Most of the talk here is about 5e (there is no 6e) and people haven't talked about 1e-2e edition wars for a long time! Anyway, here are my attempts to answer your questions:

1. I can't tell you why people say the things they do and frankly no one is talking about 2e. The changes 2e brought to demi-humans remain in all subsequent editions. The reason demi-humans had restrictions was a balancing feature in 1e, the species have been revised to be generally balanced with all other species (not sure if this happened in 2e as I skipped that edition, but it is true for 3e on) so restricting them is no longer needed.
2. maybe some knows the answer, but encumbrance has been understood to be wacky for a long time. It is basically an unused feature of the game now and next to nobody cares about it.

You might have more success posting here:

santosud37 said:

I#2 question.
Why are the encumbrances of weapons and some items WAAAAY off in AD&D 1ed? Who came up with a 2-Handed Sword weighing 25 lbs or 250 cns weight and a Long Sword being 6 lbs, which, btw is the actual weight of a heavy 2-handed sword, when a Long Sword weighs no more than 3 lbs? The encumbrances for weapons is WAAAAAY off from rl. A sledgehammer weighs no more than 20 lbs so u r telling me that a Sword wielded for battle is less than the heaviest sledgehammer? And who in their right mind is going to bring a 20 lb Spellbook on an Adventure?
I corrected all these things by researching, but this definitely needs looking into. Just some interesting thoughts as I was going through 1970-80 characters for corrections

Click to expand...

So here is a dirty secret about gear in old D&D; weight was not purely scale weight, but also supposed to simulate bulk. Things like swords and spell books weren't heavy per se, but bulky, hard to store, inconvenient to carry, and fatiguing to haul around. Which is why so many things are far heavier than they weighed IRL. It made a little more sense when gear was weighed abstractly (in coins) but when coins became lbs, it lost the bulk aspect.

santosud37 said:

I have 2 questions.
#1 Question. Why are people saying that the AD&D 2E are the original rules for the spells that were changed with their compendiums when the spells are the same spells brought over from the Unearthed Arcana 1st ed?

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Who is saying this?

I'm honestly not even sure what the difference is, for the most part 2e spells are just 1e spells with a few clean ups and minor modifications. Exceptions abound, of course, and 2e had a ton of new spells by the end of its run.

santosud37 said:

#2 question.
Why are the encumbrances of weapons and some items WAAAAY off in AD&D 1ed? Who came up with a 2-Handed Sword weighing 25 lbs or 250 cns weight and a Long Sword being 6 lbs, which, btw is the actual weight of a heavy 2-handed sword, when a Long Sword weighs no more than 3 lbs?

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It's encumbrance, not weight. Encumbrance includes bulk and how difficult stuff is to carry. A two handed sword isn't 25 lbs of weight but is as much hassle to carry as a convenient, compact, fits-in-your-backpack 25 lb item.

#2 Why are the encumbrances of weapons and some items WAAAAY off in AD&D 1ed? They are not. Weapon weight was given in pounds to try to reflect how awkward they were supposed to be in battle, not the actual weight. Gary was a great researcher into medieval times like Oakshotte, Daffy Duck, and Bugs Bunny. HEMA, SCA and other reactors know what weapons irl weighed. But remember this a fantasy game where the 35 year near just graduating from wiz college can mix some bat pooh and lighting bolt your bum.
#1 the changes in spells and demi humans/races/species/ etc is always interesting. I sometimes understand their reasons for changing stuff. Other times I think they are crazy.

santosud37 said:

I have 2 questions.
#1 Question. Why are people saying that the AD&D 2E are the original rules for the spells that were changed with their compendiums when the spells are the same spells brought over from the Unearthed Arcana 1st ed? I see there a lot of corrections that were made for the spell components but the details of the spells r directly from the Unearthed Arcan and AD&D 1ed PHB.
In my opinion, the 2ed just complicated everything with the spells by combining the Clerics with Druid Spells and the Magic-Users with Illusionists spells. And then destroying the fact that demi-humans cannot use certain magical fields. It is this that I despise about the 2nd ed in fact. Corrections are fine, but claiming something that is not true ruins a game.

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I haven’t really seen this claim here unless I missed it?

santosud37 said:

#2 question.
Why are the encumbrances of weapons and some items WAAAAY off in AD&D 1ed? Who came up with a 2-Handed Sword weighing 25 lbs or 250 cns weight and a Long Sword being 6 lbs, which, btw is the actual weight of a heavy 2-handed sword, when a Long Sword weihs no more than 3 lbs? The encumbrances for weapons is WAAAAAY off from rl. A sledgehammr weighs no more than 20 lbs so u r telling me that a Sword weilded for battle is less than the heaviest sledgehammer? And who in their right mind is going to bring a 20 lb Spellbook on an Adventure?
I corrected all these things by researching, but this definitely needs looking into. Just some interesting thoughts as I was going through 1970-80 characters for corrections.

TY!
David

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I’ve kind of given up on the “in real life” argument. It’s not accurate, it’s just a model for game purposes only. It’s like people doing 30 minute videos on how clearly someone can move silently in plate mail: they miss the point from a game POV. It’s not about the real world application, it’s about creating trade-offs in the game.

@santosud37, I think your best bet when asking detailed questions about 1E and 2E is Dragonsfoot.org, which is a community dedicated to TSR-era D&D.