OSR What OSR System for Barrowmaze?

I'm committed to running Barrowmaze in 2025, but am a little torn on what system to use.

Labyrinth Lord is what Barrowmaze is explcitly written for, but the most current edition of that game (Advanced Labyrinth Lord) has quite a lot of errata (and has never been updated to include said errata). It's also nearly $40 for the core hardcover, which isn't overly expensive, but, again, the ERRATA.

Basic Fantasy is both inexpensive (free if you just want the PDFs, less than $20 for the core hardcover) and only AC needs to be adjusted when using LL products with it (subtract LL AC from 20 to get BFRPG AC). That said, the art direction is a little rough. I know it's a petty nitpick, but I'm petty.

Old School Essentials. The most expensive of all four options, but AFAICT, it's also the most polished, both in terms of editing and art direction (you get what you pay for, I guess). Also, being a B/X Clone, it's 99.9% compatible with LL products.

Swords & Wizardry Core is somewhere between Basic Fantasy and LL/OSE with regard to price. It's very nice in terms of presentation and editing (it HAS been updated to address errors in previous printings), but is probably the least compatible rules-wise with LL products (mainly due to its single Saving Throw system).

Other options I'm aware of include Pacesetter's B/X system (which I love dearly, but I don't think it had ANY editor's eyes on it) and B|X Fantasy Roleplay (a system I own but admit that I know almost nothing about). And I'm likely missing others. Help, ENWorld! I need your feedback!

Shadowdark.

For Barrowmaze, I'd say the best option is Dragonslayer, which is a mashup of B/X and AD&D that Greg Gillespie released specifically to deliver his megadungeons as they are intended. As he describes it, "Dragonslayer uses the engine of B/X with the chrome of First Edition."

I started running Barrowmaze using OSE Advanced Fantasy (which worked just fine, by the way), but switched to Dragonslayer when it was released, as it matches the style, tone, and aesthetic of Barrowmaze (and his other megadungeons) perfectly.

Of course, the beauty of the OSR is that all of these games are basically compatible, so you can mix-and-match elements from any of them, just like we did with B/X and AD&D back in the day.

Good luck running Barrowmaze in whichever system you choose!

Angus MacDeth said:

For Barrowmaze, I'd say the best option is Dragonslayer, which is a mashup of B/X and AD&D that Greg Gillespie released specifically to deliver his megadungeons as they are intended. As he describes it, "Dragonslayer uses the engine of B/X with the chrome of First Edition."

I started running Barrowmaze using OSE Advanced Fantasy (which worked just fine, by the way), but switched to Dragonslayer when it was released, as it matches the style, tone, and aesthetic of Barrowmaze (and his other megadungeons) perfectly.

Of course, the beauty of the OSR is that all of these games are basically compatible, so you can mix-and-match elements from any of them, just like we did with B/X and AD&D back in the day.

Good luck running Barrowmaze in whichever system you choose!

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How has Dragonslayer been going?

Picked up the PDF and love it, but am worried about the lower "to-hit" chances. Is it really offset by using correct tactics?

Jahydin said:

How has Dragonslayer been going?

Picked up the PDF and love it, but am worried about the lower "to-hit" chances. Is it really offset by using correct tactics?

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So far, it's been going really well. When we switched, my players really appreciated the expanded spell lists and additional class abilities, and I've found that it still runs quickly and smoothly, since it's essentially the B/X chassis.

We haven't really noticed a disparity between how often the PCs hit in Dragonslayer versus OSE. However, the PCs are still relatively low level, as we've had a hilarious number of character deaths (our sole surviving original PC is level 5).

At lower levels, most classes' attack bonuses in Dragonslayer are on par with or even higher than in B/X or OSE (clerics, for example, don't fall behind the B/X progression until level 9, while fighters are slightly ahead of the curve), so it really hasn't been a problem for us.

If they get past level 10, which is when attack bonuses top out in Dragonslayer, I can see that it might become an issue. However, it would be easy enough to increase the attack bonus above level 10 for each class with the same frequency as the previous levels. I'll have to think about doing that as a house rule (assuming the PCs ever reach those lofty heights).

Cheers!

Bill Zebub said:

Shadowdark.

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It has it's flaws, but Shadowdark would be an excellent option, especially with all the new content.

Of course, using the Rules Cyclopedia is the ultimate "old-school D&D" choice.

Angus MacDeth said:

For Barrowmaze, I'd say the best option is Dragonslayer, which is a mashup of B/X and AD&D that Greg Gillespie released specifically to deliver his megadungeons as they are intended. As he describes it, "Dragonslayer uses the engine of B/X with the chrome of First Edition."

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Somebody elsewhere kindly volunteered to send me a copy of Dragonslayer gratis as it was out of my financial reach (I live on a fixed income and Gillespie's products are simply priced out of my reach). So I'll definitely examine this as an option.

jdrakeh said:

Somebody elsewhere kindly volunteered to send me a copy of Dragonslayer gratis as it was out of my financial reach (I live on a fixed income and Gillespie's products are simply priced out of my reach). So I'll definitely examine this as an option.

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That's a kind offer from a generous person! I think you'll find it suits Barrowmaze very well, but I also think you can't go wrong with any of the systems you're considering.

jdrakeh said:

Old School Essentials. The most expensive of all four options, but AFAICT, it's also the most polished, both in terms of editing and art direction (you get what you pay for, I guess). Also, being a B/X Clone, it's 99.9% compatible with LL products.

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What do you mean? The core book is $40. Classic Fantasy Rules Tome is all you need to play and run. At most you’ll want the two Advanced Fantasy books at $40 each.

If not OSE, I’d suggest Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG. It’s also $40 for the core, but the system does old-school gonzo D&D better than any other D&D-like I’ve played.

OSE also has a free version - and it's good enough for the first few levels even if you later want to add in more stuff. Heck you can basically run OSE from its online SRD.

The thing I'd say though is that all four of these systems are basically the same. They are all Basic/Expert D&D retroclones. The distinctions are about to a point or two of hit bonus, S&W's weird saves (I think that's S&W) or other tiny things. You could also use a bunch of other OSR and Post-OSR systems without much adaption. So it really, really, really doesn't matter.

If it's your first time running an OSR system or your players first time with the playstyle I'd actually recommend the Moldvay Basic (the acid fantasy cover with the sorceress and warrior with a spear fighting a dragon) from 1981 as it has a lot more examples and discussion of whys and how then most OSR retroclones.

It really doesn't matter though.

I might also for Barrowmaze, because it's such a combat intensive dungeon and doesn't use a lot of reaction rolls, include a death save mechanic or another mechanic that means downed PCs don't immediately die. The Death Save I use is a simple D20 over 10 that increases by 1 each time it's been made and only applies to things that do HP damage. Once made the PC is able to move and act, but any damage taken cause instant death without a save. Other alternatives would be a "Death at -5/-10, loss one HP each round PC is down unless another PC act to stabilize them that round" (This means you can survive longer fights only if another PC gives up their actions to keep the PC alive.

Don't stress about system! Never spend money you can't spare on OSR stuff (There's almost always a free version/equivalent)! Have fun!