D&D (2024) Is a heavy armored monk feasible?
- Thread starter mellored
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You lose bonus unarmed strike, martial arts die, dextrous attack, acrobatic movement, and unarmored movement. You can still use Ki abilities though... so you'd be giving up a lot but not everything. I wouldn't do it. Sounds like something a custom subclass could be focused around, though.
Remove the rule from the Monk that says they cannot use armor to use their monk features, and remove the rule that gives a WIS-bonus to AC. That pretty much is it. Not hard at all.
The only reason they put the rule in to add WIS to AC is to make up for the fact they aren't gaining any AC points from armor. So give them armor instead of the WIS bonus. No big deal. Yeah, their AC might end up being higher than a normal Monk when all is said and done... but so what? If there's no other Monk in the party then what difference does it make how high their AC is? The Monk character's AC was going to go up using bracers of defense or rings of protection anyway at some point, so this just means they get a slightly higher AC at a lower level than "normal". But who cares? And besides... if your particular party doesn't have a tank warrior character, having a higher-AC Monk to take its place would probably be good swap anyway.
The only reason they put the rule in to add WIS to AC is to make up for the fact they aren't gaining any AC points from armor. So give them armor instead of the WIS bonus. No big deal. Yeah, their AC might end up being higher than a normal Monk when all is said and done... but so what? If there's no other Monk in the party then what difference does it make how high their AC is? The Monk character's AC was going to go up using bracers of defense or rings of protection anyway at some point, so this just means they get a slightly higher AC at a lower level than "normal". But who cares? And besides... if your particular party doesn't have a tank warrior character, having a higher-AC Monk to take its place would probably be good swap anyway.
so assuming no house rules, just straight up.
I would imagine this version of the monk would probably be a heavy strength over dex, and then heavy con over wisdom.
A lot of the monk stuff covers your ability to use dex, so we could ignore that. BUT...your biggest issue is that your unarmed damage will drop from a 1d6 + dex to 1 + str, and you no longer get your bonus action unarmed strike. So overall your damage is going to go down.... a LOT.
You could use TWF to compensate a bit...or if you had a lvl of fighter lets say and had like a great sword you could use those to get some damage back (note you will still need to unarm strike for stunning strike). That will be a reasonable cover at the lower lvls, it won't hold up at higher lvls but if your not concerned about damage or if the game is not going into higher lvls you might be fine there. You could also focus on a grappler build, being more about control than damage.
You also give up all that wonderful bonus speed but still can get dash as a bonus action.
The shadow monk still gets its full suite without skipping a beat wearing armor, so that's a good choice.
On the plus side, this monk would have good AC and high hp, plus the ability to soak a big hit with deflect attacks (though less since your doing a strength build)....so pretty solidly tanky. And then your saves won't be really high in any saves but you will have 4 saves that are pretty high.
So viable?....sure. Optimal, absolutely not, but I think its doable if your not looking for a top tier combat character.
I would imagine this version of the monk would probably be a heavy strength over dex, and then heavy con over wisdom.
A lot of the monk stuff covers your ability to use dex, so we could ignore that. BUT...your biggest issue is that your unarmed damage will drop from a 1d6 + dex to 1 + str, and you no longer get your bonus action unarmed strike. So overall your damage is going to go down.... a LOT.
You could use TWF to compensate a bit...or if you had a lvl of fighter lets say and had like a great sword you could use those to get some damage back (note you will still need to unarm strike for stunning strike). That will be a reasonable cover at the lower lvls, it won't hold up at higher lvls but if your not concerned about damage or if the game is not going into higher lvls you might be fine there. You could also focus on a grappler build, being more about control than damage.
You also give up all that wonderful bonus speed but still can get dash as a bonus action.
The shadow monk still gets its full suite without skipping a beat wearing armor, so that's a good choice.
On the plus side, this monk would have good AC and high hp, plus the ability to soak a big hit with deflect attacks (though less since your doing a strength build)....so pretty solidly tanky. And then your saves won't be really high in any saves but you will have 4 saves that are pretty high.
So viable?....sure. Optimal, absolutely not, but I think its doable if your not looking for a top tier combat character.
tombowings
Explorer
One level of fighter for Heavy armor. While you're there, snag the Unarmored Fighting style for use with Flurry of Blows.
I would go for a greatsword. Then use Flurry of Blows with Open Hand Technique to knock enemies Prone before attacking.
I would go for a greatsword. Then use Flurry of Blows with Open Hand Technique to knock enemies Prone before attacking.
jgsugden
Legend
That depends upon the definition of feasible you're using.
If you mean "possible"? Sure. Almost anything is possible. It would not be efficient or effective in combat in a way that was on par with other classes, but you can do it.
If you mean "easily or conveniently" - No. The rules do not support it right now. Too many abilities of the monk require them to be unarmored.
To that end, if a player came to me asking about playing an "armored monk", I'd have the following conversations?
1.) Explain to me what you want this character to do. Attack unarmed and effectively in heavy armor? Move like a monk in heavy armor? Be able to stun with their fists in heavy armor? Have the Shadowmonk abilities in heavy armor?
2.) Would it be easier to apply the ideas from the monk that you want to retain in your character to a class that gets heavy armor? Is this something we can reskin into a fighter, for example?
3.) Would you like us to make a subclass that does what you want?
If you mean "possible"? Sure. Almost anything is possible. It would not be efficient or effective in combat in a way that was on par with other classes, but you can do it.
If you mean "easily or conveniently" - No. The rules do not support it right now. Too many abilities of the monk require them to be unarmored.
To that end, if a player came to me asking about playing an "armored monk", I'd have the following conversations?
1.) Explain to me what you want this character to do. Attack unarmed and effectively in heavy armor? Move like a monk in heavy armor? Be able to stun with their fists in heavy armor? Have the Shadowmonk abilities in heavy armor?
2.) Would it be easier to apply the ideas from the monk that you want to retain in your character to a class that gets heavy armor? Is this something we can reskin into a fighter, for example?
3.) Would you like us to make a subclass that does what you want?
mellored
Legend
Way of the Iron Fist has a nice ring to it.
But let me see what I can do without homebrewing first.
I believe the only 3 heavy armor are fighter, paladin, and cleric.
Paladin with Divine Favor would work well if I went Nick + Flurry, but lack of slots wouldn't let it keep uo.
Cleric can also use a greatsword. Healing Word is nice as a backup, but I don't see much use for cantrips. No good synergies.
So yea, Fighter 1. With defensive fighting style to really lean into the Iron monk theme.
There is Tavern Brawler, which makes it 1d5 (including the reroll). No scaling, but something.
Oh, Magic Initiate Druid, getting Shillelagh. That will be a die ahead most of the time. And Mending (Iron bending), and Longstrider.
If I have the AC, I might as well keep enemies nearby.
Flurry of blows can easily be a grapple + trip.
Good call.
So..
Cast Darkness
bonus action Flurry to grapple+topple
They have disadvantage against high AC
They can't see to target me with most spells.
Evasion helps against AoEs.
And if they do hit, get a big damage reduction, with Heavy Armor Master more than making up for the lower Dex.
Then proceed to smack them with my d10 "Iron" club.
Oh, and be a Goliath so I can grab larger creatures and move quicker.
And make sure my allies have stuff like blind fighting, Devils sight, or can cast Clouds of Daggers.
That looks pretty solid to me.
That seems the be the biggest downside.
Kurotowa
Legend
This would be where I turned first. With the Unarmed Fighting Style in the PHB, fisticuffs is no longer exclusively the domain of the Monk. Sure, you have to double check your choice of subclass to make sure there aren't any weapon exclusive features. But a Battle Master Fighter or Glory Paladin would make an excellent unarmed brawler, and you can slap the desired flavor on top of it.
J-H
Hero
I don't know about 2024, but it is in 5.14. Here's the thread.
I plan to play one at some point.
I plan to play one at some point.
mellored
Legend
Sure. Shadow works mechanically, but kind of clashes thematically. (Dark Steel?
)So go ahead and make a Way of the Iron Fist.
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